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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Dads staying over night

458 replies

silverperiwinkle · 08/08/2015 16:53

What do you think?
m.burtonmail.co.uk/Burton-Queen-s-Hospital-introduce-scheme-allow/story-27564928-detail/story.html

OP posts:
Sansarya · 11/08/2015 17:09

Personally I think we should be campaigning for more staff on the wards rather than fathers being allowed to stay overnight.

Skylander1 · 11/08/2015 17:11

I had my children at that hospital, my husband stayed overnight with me because our daughter was very ill when she was born, this was 10 years ago!

Thurlow · 11/08/2015 17:11

Genuine question, as I have no experience or knowledge of this.

If a patient was being admitted for three nights for a routine operation, and said they needed their partner or a family member to stay with them at all times, what would the hospital do?

I know having a baby is a difficult time. But I don't think the rules should be radically different from when patients are allowed to have another person with them at all times on other wards.

ArendelleQueen · 11/08/2015 17:12

I think some people are forgetting why they are in hospital, it's not for emotional support and it's not for bonding with your new baby. It would be fucking amazing if the NHS was able to provide this level of support but it just can't. Women are on post-natal wards for medical reasons. Poor medical care on the ward is a huge concern but sadly, not limited to post-natal care. If post-birth women are allowed, why aren't other patients? Quite frankly, there will be many patients in a hospital setting who have been through far worse and would love emotional and practical support from another person staying over.

ArendelleQueen · 11/08/2015 17:14

Bringing Charlotte Bevan into this discussion is in very poor taste, IMO. She was a severely unwell woman who needed more than a partner to hold her hand.

StarlingMurmuration · 11/08/2015 17:15

I certainly agree that more inks rooms are needed, desperately so. I'm definitely not evocation got a blanket policy of 24/7 visiting, as I tried to make clear in my first post. I just resent the many statements on this thread that all women can and should be able to cope alone, and that anyone who claims otherwise is being precious or entitled or selfish.

Lweji · 11/08/2015 17:16

But other patients aren't supposed to have to have relatives around. They are given the care their condition requires. And so should mums. What about those who don't have partners?
Having someone around should always be an allowance made by the hospital and not a necessity.

HappilyMarriedExpat · 11/08/2015 17:17

If a patient was being admitted for three nights for a routine operation, and said they needed their partner or a family member to stay with them at all times, what would the hospital do?

I begged for my mum to stay when I was on a surgical ward having just had a cancerous tumour removed (which was not even diagnosed until they cut me open, but that's another story). The ward sister very firmly told me no and I sobbed all night and had hideous nightmares from the morphine. It was the worst experience of my life.

It was still the right decision though. I was not the only person on the ward and the facilities were not adequate as it was.

StarlingMurmuration · 11/08/2015 17:17

FFS. Autocorrect fails - I agree more singe rooms are needed, and I'm not advocating for a blanket policy

oddfodd · 11/08/2015 17:19

Please explain what genuine medical need a patient could have which can't be managed by an HCP Starling.

It's the same point that Mad made yesterday and she ignored the question.

StarlingMurmuration · 11/08/2015 17:20

The difference between a normal op and giving birth is that after you give birth, you are both a patient yourself, and you have a baby to look after as well. I recently had an operation to repair birth damage, and it never occurred to me to want my partner. It was completely different, not least because I'm no longer suffering incipient postpartum psychosis.

StarlingMurmuration · 11/08/2015 17:23

In my own personal experience, the only way a HCP could have adequately supported me in the same way as my DP could have done, out have been to stay with me constantly while I wept and gibbered. Even then, it wouldn't have been the same. Is postnatal depression/incipient postpartum psychosis reason a genuine medical need in your eyes?

StarlingMurmuration · 11/08/2015 17:25

If not, then I respectfully suggest we should agree to differ on this.

MissBattleaxe · 11/08/2015 17:27

But Starling- where would you draw the line? Would you say that all partners SHOULD be allowed overnight in order to accommodate the small percentage who may have depression or anxiety?

Or do you say everyone can have their partner to stay so that it's deemed fair to those NOT suffering from anxiety or MH disorders?

What kind of trend would that start in hospital care? Would ALL wards then have "relative's chairs" next to every bed?

These are genuine questions.

I would say a blanket ban to all overnight visitors unless you have a private room.

I think it's a dangerous precedent to encourage overnighters on a multiple occupancy ward.

HappilyMarriedExpat · 11/08/2015 17:28

Starling if you were weeping and gibbering as you say then I would expect and hope that you would be moved to a private room (out of consideration for the other patients, as well as for you). I have not read the WT but did this not happen?

Lweji · 11/08/2015 17:30

is postnatal depression/incipient postpartum psychosis reason a genuine medical need in your eyes?

Sure and it would warrant assessment and treatment by a specialist.

HappilyMarriedExpat · 11/08/2015 17:30

I have had depression and anxiety for years and there is no way in hell I would expect a room full of post partum women to put up with my DH (and he's a doctor, and lovely, but still a stranger to them!)

MissBattleaxe · 11/08/2015 17:33

Me too HappilyMarried. I went to pieces in the toilets at 2 am about not being able to cope. Couldn't stop crying. I still don't think there should be overnight visitors on mixed wards.

HappilyMarriedExpat · 11/08/2015 17:35

Battleaxe Wine and Flowers

Anniesaunt · 11/08/2015 17:40

starling the only reason MW cannot provide enough emotional support when required is that there is not enough of them. The answer to the problem is more staff not partners staying over night because that adds additional problems and pressures. I do not believe that trying to sleep in a room designed to sleep 6 with 11 other adults and 6 babies would be beneficial to the mental health of someone who is already struggling. For a start reduced sleep impacts on brain chemistry.

bettyberry · 11/08/2015 17:48

as did I StarlingMurmuration I developed depression after 6 MC's 2 of those in the year I conceived my son. I was on anti-depressents, Homeless when I gave birth, an ex who decided in the last weeks of my pregnancy to be an emotionally abusive twat. I had a traumatic birth, EMCS, nearly died on the operating table and again when I was on the ward. I was seriously ill originally admitted due to a suspected DVT. I gave birth alone. I had zero choice in that matter but my midwives were fantastic with one staying late over her shift to stay with me and coming in early the next day to see me on the ward. Excellent staff are what we need. Just like the ones I had not untrained strangers who are more likely to panic and make things worse.

I am not at all being dismissive of MH needs. I know them, I had my own and the very last thing I needed was to be surrounded by strangers all hours of the day having no choice to discharge myself because I had no support especially when my anxiety levels were that high. The staff knew this. They did their absolute best to counter my own mental health issues and its taken me years and several courses of CBT and counselling to get over all of the issues around my MC's, the traumatic birth and nearly dying twice. That in itself gives you an entirely different perspective on life.

I am wary of men due to past physical and emotional abuse and threats of rape from a family member. I still flinch if someone raises their hand near me too quick and its been over 15 years since I left that situation.

So yes, anyone who cannot cope for a few hours with out their OH's there overnight I do think is being incredibly dramatic. It's a tiny tiny fragment of time in a life in the grand scheme of things and would having a partner there make my experience any easier? No. I would still have lost a ridiculous amount of blood. There was no escaping that. I would still have the depression and dealing with the trauma for the months afterwards. I still would have stopped breathing, had a dangerously high heart rate and an infection that nearly killed me. It wouldn't have fixed my inability to breast feed (two inverted nipples no one on ANC bothered to mention when pushing the breastfeeding spiel) and certainly wouldn't have made expressing any easier.(yes I gawped at once or twice when using the ancient breast pump in the hospital named daisy Hmm ) I expressed for 10 days even though I couldn't feed my own baby the milk because of the meds I had to take and needing a trip to nuclear medicine to check the state of my lungs.

It was bloody difficult, don't get me wrong but I still stand by the fact I'd rather ALL women had privacy, peace, dignity and feeling of safety on a ward, any ward, than Strangers able to move about 24 hrs especially through such a traumatic and sometimes life or death experience. I Cried, I fought with a midwife when my temperature went though the roof and couldn't see straight. But those hours after visiting, when everyone had finally buggered off home, were the only times I had to heal, to talk properly to the midwives because they weren't busy dealing with a constant barrage of relatives concerns. The number of apologies I had during the day when they couldn't bring my meds when I needed them or check my temp to make sure the infection was clearing was eye opening. During visiting hours the midwives acted more like adult day care supervisors than midwives.

so yes, I am still against it. I still think every ward should be patient only with visiting hours restricted. I still think staffing problems are to blame. I am wholeheartedly behind including general nurses trained specifically for maternity wards around mental health should be the norm on top of the usual OT's to help post sections, midwives and HCA's. I still believe, partner or not, a traumatic birth will be traumatic and I still believe 24 hour partners will reduce the levels of care available to women and in a lot of cases slow healing andin some cases make it far more dangerous. It will make life more difficult for the all of the mothers and babies who should always be the priority.

StarlingMurmuration · 11/08/2015 17:58

I was moved to a private room after two days on a hellish joint ward. And I certainly don't think that every mother needs her partner there in case she develops PND, or that there shoud be a blanket policy in place to allow this. ive said this several times. I'm merely pointing out that in some cases, there are genuine medical needs that even the most well staffed and dedicated team can't meet in their entirety. I didn't need a midwife, I needed my DP. It was a genuine medical need, it wasn't me being precious. I think that should be acknowledged.

This is obviously quite an emotive subject for me, and my own personal needs and issues mean that I can't debate it very well, because they are competing with what I rationally agree with, that having every partner on a maternity ward would be truly awful for the vast majority of women. So I'll bow out now.

StarlingMurmuration · 11/08/2015 18:03

One last thing, Lweji - I was under consultant care for antenatal depression but the moment I gave birth, I was removed from her patient list but not placed on anyone else's list.

I'd forgotten about that. I had an appointment with her in the hospital I gave birth in, three days after I gave birth, which had been scheduled weeks before (DS was early), so I asked the midwives if I should go anyway. Thy said yes, but when I got down to the outpatients ward and they found out I'd already given birth, they told me off and sent me back to the ward. That was pretty shit, wasn't it?

StarlingMurmuration · 11/08/2015 18:08

Betty, but I do think it's minimising MH issues to say anyone who can't cope for a few hours is being "incredibly dramatic". Yes, you coped. I did cope, in that I survived. But some women might not be able to, in which case they should be in a private room with their OH, if that's at all possible.

HappilyMarriedExpat · 11/08/2015 18:10

Starling - yes, that was totally shit. My DSis had post natal (and prenatal!) psychosis so I speak from some limited experience. It seems to me (and I mean this gently) that you had shit care and that your MH was inadequately managed. I totally "get" why you feel that your husband needed to be there, but the problem is with the shit care and not the absence of your DH. If you had felt adequately supported during your delivery and the horrible aftermath, maybe you would feel more able to cope without DH.

The whole circus seems to be designed to conceal poor care - we shouldn't do that, in the interests of everyone who has or may in future need PP care. If the care is inadequate then it is not the sleeping arrangements that should be changed.