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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

AIBU for not wanting my MIL to discuss Jesus and heaven with my 5 year old?

999 replies

Spearshake · 04/08/2015 13:29

I was just having breakfast with my 5 year old son and he asked me, 'do only people who love Jesus go to heaven?; I asked him who told you that.
Unfortunately, my tone must have been a bit sharp (hey, first thing in the morning) so he said, 'I don't know'

(I know it's his grandma though (my MIL) because she has been staying with us for the last week and we haven't been in contact with anyone else who is likely to make such comments) Unless he has been on the evangelical channels again

The problem is that I am an atheist, so I have a tough time with such discussions. He asked me what God is the other day, and I asked him to wait until his father gets home and he can answer (he was brought up more religiously than me)

Any ideas from fellow mumsnetters of a similar religious (or non-) bent on how to deal with such ideas would be most welcome.

Thank you!

OP posts:
ReginaFelangi · 05/08/2015 17:15

at the same time not everything can be explained science - ever wondered why?
there's so much we don't know.

Wow.

ReginaFelangi · 05/08/2015 17:16

Zing, I think rude, arrogant, aggressive and wrong make up large parts of the atheist landscape. You get used to it after a while.

These could equally be applied to you "believers"

Not sure whether it's been asked, but what makes you so sure your God is the right given there are currently more than 500 imagined to exist around the world......?

ReginaFelangi · 05/08/2015 17:16

*right one(s)

BertrandRussell · 05/08/2015 17:19

"Zing, I think rude, arrogant, aggressive and wrong make up large parts of the atheist landscape. You get used to it after a while."

OK- so this is your response to rational argument? That rather puts the brakes on any further discussion, surely?

LemonCream · 05/08/2015 17:21

you said pathetic
i you claim that's not an insult

No, it's a fact. I genuinely cannot think of anything more pathetic than a grown woman claiming she's not responsible for her own thoughts.

I don't expect you to prove anything to me...mainly because I know you can't. But I am 100% certain that you would if you could.

LemonCream · 05/08/2015 17:24

Zing, I think rude, arrogant, aggressive and wrong make up large parts of the atheist landscape. You get used to it after a while

Hmmm. And resorting to the whole "rude" thing is what you do when you know your "logic" and "facts" have totally failed.

"Noooooo, you nasty arrogant atheists with your damn logic and demands for evidence....stop being RUDE to me"

LemonCream · 05/08/2015 17:25

Love to know what we're "wrong" about though.

TTWK · 05/08/2015 17:27

If someone asked me if there was an Acacia ave in my town, I'd say I've lived here 30years, have never seen it, or heard any reference to it, so I think not. But I can't be certain. That's agnostic.

If someone asked me if there was a road in my town with a magic portal straight into the foyer of Sydney Opera house, I'd say stop talking such utter tripe. That's so ludicrous that it isn't worthy of serious consideration. That's atheist.

On the question of God, I'm an atheist, not agnostic. The whole proposition is so daft it isn't to be taken seriously.

LemonCream · 05/08/2015 17:27

That rather puts the brakes on any further discussion, surely?

Which is completely the intention. Much less embarrassing than having to concede defeat.

tarashill · 05/08/2015 17:31

Of course the universe is apparently infinite, when I talk about the exact alignment of the sun and the moon to earth, that is what I'm talking about....earth....the planet we live on. The odds of winning the lottery are huge, to what the odds are of the positioning of the sun and moon to earth by chance are. I read once that there is more chance of winning the Euro millions every single day since the beginning of time for it to be so.

LemonCream · 05/08/2015 17:31

TTWK

I agree with you in all practical ways.

But strictly, strictly speaking you would have to acknowledge a 1 in a trillion chance of a magic portal at SOH which would make you (strictly, strictly speaking) an agnostic about it.

It's just a matter of definition and an indication that none of us should be claiming omniscience.

And anyway, magic portals aren't that unlikely. Einstein predicted wormholes...they could be everywhere Wink

noblegiraffe · 05/08/2015 17:31

Not actually answering questions put to you and saying you don't want to hear any reasons why people might be atheist are also discussion stoppers.

It's the debate equivalent of sticking your fingers in your ears and saying you're not listening.

ZingDramaQueenOfSheeba · 05/08/2015 17:33

the problem with asking Cristians to prove God's existence is that obviously we can't prove it.
we believe or know that God exists through faith, through believing
not through human understanding.

you ask me to give you the keys to a house you don't think/believe exists.
so if you say it doesn't exist than you'd have to extend that to saying that no key exists either,
yet you are asking me to give the key you.
so do you then believe that key exists?
but then the house should exist too.
Wink

you just have to accept that once you have faith you see things differently, understand things differently.
until then you just can't

DoraGora · 05/08/2015 17:34

The logical fallacy has only just been put to rest, you've been wrong about that for several pages.

ZingDramaQueenOfSheeba · 05/08/2015 17:36

lemon

i didn't claim what you are saying. you are making assumptions.
and you did insult me

telling someone their views are pathetic or they are thoughtless puppets is not exactly kind

LemonCream · 05/08/2015 17:38

to what the odds are of the positioning of the sun and moon to earth by chance are

Who positioned them? How do you know they were "positioned" at all?

There are other star systems with planets in the Goldilocks zone too. So, it's not that rare I'm afraid.

But do you genuinely not understand that we have evolved on this planet in this way because it's the only way we could? That if Earth happened to be where Saturn is it would be different and we wouldn't be here?

You seem to think we were designed in advance and then a home made for us. Why? Did we exist before the planet did?

And why is it that, if anything is possible with an omnipotent creator, we can only live on a certain type of planet? We could live anywhere and under any kind of conditions if he wanted us to. He's in charge of the entire universe, according to you.

Your argument makes absolutely no sense and no scientist worth his credentials would ever try to make it.

DoraGora · 05/08/2015 17:39

Zing, you're not going to get anywhere. Atheists think they're doing everybody a favour by pointing out how mindless believers are. Using insults just helps them to liven things up.

noblegiraffe · 05/08/2015 17:42

So believers think that the universe was made especially for them, that the Earth was designed for them, and not that cat, or that fly and definitely not those dinosaurs.

But it's atheists that are arrogant?

ZingDramaQueenOfSheeba · 05/08/2015 17:44

Dora

it's always a frustrating for conversation, for everyone

LemonCream · 05/08/2015 17:45

No, Zing...you cannot get away with that.

You said:

"all knowledge comes from God. your brain, your thoughts, everything"

I think it's pretty damn insulting to tell me that something else is responsible for my thoughts. If anything is rude, that is.

People not responsible for their own thoughts in essence don't have any, and are therefore thoughtless puppets.

This is your view. Not mine. You just don't like having to face the upshot of your own arguments.

Stop with the "not kind" crap, please. It's childish whining.

LemonCream · 05/08/2015 17:47

But it's atheists that are arrogant?

And then they tell you that something else is responsible for your thoughts and then call you rude when you say exactly the same thing back to them.

Quite amazing.

Somersetlady · 05/08/2015 17:48

I thought I was the only one! MIL devout Irish Catholic first time she had my son on her own for an hour at 3 months old took him to church to be blessed?!?! wtf

Some great ideas on how to deal with it as it comes up (he is currently 14 months) so thank you mumsnetters!

Jo4040 · 05/08/2015 17:48

Would it be very confusing to tell my four year old DS that some people don't really think there is a God? Iv always told him there is but after reading this thread I want him to be open to the idea that it's just a belief

Don't want to confuse him tho. I think he likes the idea of 'God having a shower' when it rainGrin

LemonCream · 05/08/2015 17:53

"I believe xxx, but some people disagree and believe yyy. That's because nobody knows for certain. What do you think?"......works fine, Jo.

You will probably find he believes whatever you do initially, which is perfectly normal, but as long as he knows he's free to think for himself as he grows up then he'll be absolutely fine.

DoraGora · 05/08/2015 17:53

It wouldn't have been a thoughtless puppet, though, would it? Because the person did have at least one thought, that it had been given a thought by God. Presumably, the adult wouldn't have been a puppet, either, because she wasn't made of cotton and balancing on a hand or strings. So, actually, I don't think the message was repeated at all. I think it was interpreted and returned in an altered, incorrect and derogatory fashion.

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