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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

AIBU for not wanting my MIL to discuss Jesus and heaven with my 5 year old?

999 replies

Spearshake · 04/08/2015 13:29

I was just having breakfast with my 5 year old son and he asked me, 'do only people who love Jesus go to heaven?; I asked him who told you that.
Unfortunately, my tone must have been a bit sharp (hey, first thing in the morning) so he said, 'I don't know'

(I know it's his grandma though (my MIL) because she has been staying with us for the last week and we haven't been in contact with anyone else who is likely to make such comments) Unless he has been on the evangelical channels again

The problem is that I am an atheist, so I have a tough time with such discussions. He asked me what God is the other day, and I asked him to wait until his father gets home and he can answer (he was brought up more religiously than me)

Any ideas from fellow mumsnetters of a similar religious (or non-) bent on how to deal with such ideas would be most welcome.

Thank you!

OP posts:
KingOfTheBongo · 07/08/2015 12:02

Stitching, I didn't say we were born religious. Religion and faith are quite different things.

I don't find your question awkward at all! I don't believe God has anything to do with good luck or bad luck, I don't believe in determinism, I don't believe that God intervenes in the physical world very often.

fourtothedozen · 07/08/2015 12:02

Evidence king?

KingOfTheBongo · 07/08/2015 12:08

fourtothe12, look up Helen Keller for example.

noeffingidea · 07/08/2015 12:09

Yes I'd like to see the evidence as well. I would say the exact opposite.

fourtothedozen · 07/08/2015 12:15

OK I have looked at Helen Keller- born able to communicate, lost hearing and sight as a toddler but was still able to communicate with family members through signs with her family..

An interesting story but not evidence for:

pre-existing belief in a divine being

As I say we are all born atheist.

StitchingMoss · 07/08/2015 12:16

What's the bloody point of him then king? And how does he get the credit when people do survive?!? It's all a bit nonsensical!

clarabellabunting · 07/08/2015 12:16

Well, of course anyone can believe that things they don't believe in don't exist.

Dora, this statement makes no sense. You don't have to believe something you don't believe in doesn't exist.

By definition, if you don't believe in something, your position is that it doesn't exist. That's what not believing in something means!

You don't have to also believe it doesn't exist after already having decided your don't believe in it...

SmillasSenseOfSnow · 07/08/2015 12:18

He healed people, taught us not to be judgemental, gave us the story of the Good Samaritan, among other things.

The man called Jesus did these things? What evidence are you basing that on?

jamdonut · 07/08/2015 12:22

I've always been of the view that it is up to my children to choose what they believe, and I have never forced religious views on them. I always go with the "some people believe..." tack, and indeed, when my youngest was 6 he told a visiting vicar at his infant school that he didn't believe in God, and his reasons why! ( I actually witnessed this as I was working as a TA in his school!)

Although I and my husband were both christened as children, I never chose this option for them, as I don't feel I have the right to choose their re!igion, if any. We are not religious people ourselves. Our mothers and my grandmother didn't like it one little bit, but, never interfered .

DoraGora · 07/08/2015 12:29

clarabel, isn't there a middle option; the don't know if it exists option.

I refuse to believe in (ghosts) but am I not allowed stop short of insisting that they don't exist?

I think openly saying, or thinking, that you don't believe in something is the extra step you mentioned.

TTWK · 07/08/2015 12:29

we evolved to fit the conditions prevailing.

Tarashill just doesn't get it. After a storm, she must walk around in amazement that all the puddles just happen to exactly fit the holes they find themselves in! After all, what are the odds of that!

TTWK · 07/08/2015 12:35

The most prominent, eminent scientists of our times are baffled as to why and how the sun is the exact position it is in,

They really aren't.

Leading atheists even are blown away by what I said,

True, they can't believe a grown adult could have such a childlike view of our place in the universe.

AlanPacino · 07/08/2015 12:39

I don't believe that God intervenes in the world very often

You don't believe the writings of the NT then? So sometimes God stops a child being raped and sometimes he doesn't. That makes him as much of a monster as a God who never intervenes but says he is loving.

KingOfTheBongo · 07/08/2015 12:40

4tothe12 ... Virtually every known society has had some form of belief in God. How did all these beliefs originate if everybody is born atheist? Doesn't that strike you as rather unrealistic?

elementofsurprise · 07/08/2015 12:41

I thought the whole idea, from a Christian perspective, was that everything is an ongoing battle between good and evil, and eventually good/God wins (end of world as we know it).

God approving your mortgage application is a bit Hmm and quite different from being generally thankful for something. I guess it would be like eg. if someone gave you a lift in the pissing rain, you'd be thankful to them. And their car breaking down the following day so they cannot give another person a lift doesn't mean they don't want to, or the other person doesn't deserve it, it just means something's got in the way.

The language used and unspoken implications by religious people tend to make it come across entirely differently though...

NB. not arguing for or against existence of anything, just putting forward my understanding of the concept.

KingOfTheBongo · 07/08/2015 12:41

Alan that's not what I said.

fourtothedozen · 07/08/2015 12:43

No. It's called society. You think people are born with a "pre-existing belief in a divine being" ?

DoraGora · 07/08/2015 12:43

I think atheists would do well to steer clear of accusing people whose views they disagree with of being childlike, crap, and all the rest of it.

If an atheist has a good point to make then he or she should just make it. Replacing it with insults can lead some people to wonder whether the good argument was actually there.

AlanPacino · 07/08/2015 12:47

Bongo you said that you don't think God intervenes in the world very often, so you think he does sometimes. So sometimes he stops a child being abused and sometimes he doesn't. Or does he never stop it? Why does the NT makes claims about a God who will always meddle with life on Earth and give his followers the ability to raise people from the dead? What's going on? Is the bible wrong?

fourtothedozen · 07/08/2015 12:49

The arguments are very childlike though.

The belief that god is real without evidence, the idea that the sun just happens to be in that very very special place, the idea that a kind daddy will do all the thinking for us and look after us as long as we are good little boys and girls.........all quite infantile.

AlanPacino · 07/08/2015 12:50

god approving your mortgage

Well the NT supports the view that God would do that for his followers, many verses about asking for anything in his name and moving mountains and raising dead people. Either God lied or the bible is man made and believers do mental gymnastics to justify to themselves why there are no miracles and why God lets children be horribly abused while getting their mortgage approved.

clarabellabunting · 07/08/2015 12:51

Dora:
I refuse to believe in (ghosts) but am I not allowed stop short of insisting that they don't exist?

But when you say that you don't believe in them, what are you saying? What can it mean except that you've come to the conclusion they don't exist?

It would be different if you weren't sure whether you believed in them or not - that might be a middle ground.

But when you lack belief in something there is no extra step to go in your mind, surely? You might decide not to shout about it or engage with people about it. You might not particularly care about it or find discussion about it interesting. But if you don't believe in something, you don't believe it exists - that is what it means.

noeffingidea · 07/08/2015 12:51

king you are correct, virtually all societies have had some form of belief in gods/godesses/spirit animals, etc.
It's pretty obvious (and basic knowledge) why. Because they were at the mercy of nature and had very little knowledge about their enviroment. At the same time, they were aware of their eventual death. So they could only attempt to understand their enviroment through supernatural symbols, or the sun (which actually has a little bit more basis in reality).
That doesn't show that babies are born with any knowledge of those 'gods', just that they learn them from their elders.

AlanPacino · 07/08/2015 12:53

There is evidence of some early cultures that had no discernible faith in a spiritual entity. Google Will Durrant.

AlanPacino · 07/08/2015 12:54

I refuse to believe in ghosts

Why? So many other people do, are they wrong?