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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

AIBU for not wanting my MIL to discuss Jesus and heaven with my 5 year old?

999 replies

Spearshake · 04/08/2015 13:29

I was just having breakfast with my 5 year old son and he asked me, 'do only people who love Jesus go to heaven?; I asked him who told you that.
Unfortunately, my tone must have been a bit sharp (hey, first thing in the morning) so he said, 'I don't know'

(I know it's his grandma though (my MIL) because she has been staying with us for the last week and we haven't been in contact with anyone else who is likely to make such comments) Unless he has been on the evangelical channels again

The problem is that I am an atheist, so I have a tough time with such discussions. He asked me what God is the other day, and I asked him to wait until his father gets home and he can answer (he was brought up more religiously than me)

Any ideas from fellow mumsnetters of a similar religious (or non-) bent on how to deal with such ideas would be most welcome.

Thank you!

OP posts:
Mehitabel6 · 05/08/2015 16:10

I read it the first time about dolphins- I don't want a second dose or to waste my afternoon saying why it is completely different. Pointless because you won't agree. May as well save time and agree to differ. I have to go out anyway- should have gone out 10 mins ago!

LemonCream · 05/08/2015 16:10

Dora

Atheists have good reasons for belief in non-existence. The same good reasons you have for your rejection of all the many, many things you don't believe in.

You have precisely no good reason for your belief in existence other than a few logical fallacies and misunderstanding of science.

That's the difference. And it's a pretty massive one.

Mehitabel6 · 05/08/2015 16:11

There are scientists with religious faiths.

LemonCream · 05/08/2015 16:14

There are a few, yes, but even those ones would not be making the stupid arguments that previous posters are pretending that they do.

KingOfTheBongo · 05/08/2015 16:16

"It is NO different from the rejection of the claim that Loch Ness is home to a primeval monster."

This is evidence of the silliness that people display when they defend the position that atheism doesn't require faith. There is absolutely no comparison. Unless you can tell me what the Loch Ness monster is supposed to be and have done (has it inspired people to write books for example, did it create any universes, etc), it is not even anything to have faith in. There's no uncertainty at all, there's nothing to even consider.

By the way, why do you believe that your brain is capable of comprehending anything as fundamental as the origins of the universe? Isn't it just a product of chance? Why trust anything that is geared towards its own survival rather than truth?

LemonCream · 05/08/2015 16:16

It's notable, though, that those people trying to make a big deal out of a few religious scientists and the minuscule minority who believe the universe was "tailor made for life" are in the next breath dismissing pretty much all of the science that challenges their beliefs.

Coffeemarkone · 05/08/2015 16:21

" There are scientists with religious faiths."

I know, someone in my family is a church going scientist...
However, when quizzed he admits he has no belief in 'God' - he just thinks that going to church and living life by the teachings of Jesus is a good idea...

keepitsimple0 · 05/08/2015 16:22

There is absolutely no comparison.

you are right, there is no comparison. The existence is of the Loch Ness monster and pink unicorns is actually far more likely. We, after all, have examples of many creatures somewhat like both. I have seen horses, elk, birds and pink flamingos. it's not crazy to think pink unicorns may exist.

but god? I have no evidence of a remotely similar being.

DoraGora · 05/08/2015 16:22

I have not expressed a belief in existence merely the refutation of non existence. But, the reasons to a belief in non existence are a source pleasure of pleasure to many, I'm sure. Just not to me. If you would care to show me the logical fallacy, then so be it. Please don't repeat the error brought up by cote dazur. If a correct understanding of science proves non existence, then please explain it.

keepitsimple0 · 05/08/2015 16:24

If a correct understanding of science proves non existence, then please explain it.

it doesn't, and pretty much everyone has said that. we are all in agreement there.

ZingDramaQueenOfSheeba · 05/08/2015 16:26

we don't need to pray instead of calling 999

all knowledge comes from God. your brain, your thoughts, everything

at the same time not everything can be explained science - ever wondered why?
there's so much we don't know.

which is why, if you have faith, you will be given more knowledge.
through faith, through grace.

"I was blind, but now I see"

if you don't believe in God, just accept that. there are things you won't know while you are "blind"

remember doubting Thomas: "unless I see it, I won't believe it?"
well it's your choice whether you want to "see"
but it will not be by me or anyone else who has Faith convincing you.
which is why I don't even try to convince anyone.

ZingDramaQueenOfSheeba · 05/08/2015 16:27

*explained by science

LemonCream · 05/08/2015 16:31

There is absolutely no comparison. Unless you can tell me what the Loch Ness monster is supposed to be and have done (has it inspired people to write books for example, did it create any universes, etc), it is not even anything to have faith in. There's no uncertainty at all, there's nothing to even consider

Er....really?

There is as much evidence that the Loch Ness monster created the universe as there is that your particular (or any) god did.

Fascinating that you've begun your comment with two assumptions that a) you seem to just accept and b) seem to think I should.

Where is your evidence that something/someone created the universe? Who says it was "created" at all?

Where is your evidence that someone/something inspired the Bible?

Lots of people says so and you personally believe it is not "evidence", to be clear.

So, if you want to be take seriously, back up and start making a decent case.

LemonCream · 05/08/2015 16:32

Oh...and we have better evidence for Nessie than for Yahweh/Allah. A photograph for a start. Eyewitness accounts. Not compelling, but better than absolutely nothing whatsoever like your god.

BertrandRussell · 05/08/2015 16:33

"There wouldn't be a scientist in the world who would agree with that. Of course it's tailor made for life. That has never been in dispute. If the sun and moon were not in their exact positions there would be no life on Earth. Like I said the odds that this happened by chance were incalculable"

There are loads of scientists who dispute that! And there have been ever since what's his name- Henderson?- put the idea forward in the early 20th century.

LemonCream · 05/08/2015 16:37

all knowledge comes from God. your brain, your thoughts, everything

Prove it.

And that is quite the most pathetic thing I have ever heard.

You might be a thoughtless puppet, but I'm not.

noblegiraffe · 05/08/2015 16:43

We don't know whether every even number greater than 2 is the sum of two primes. Therefore: God.

Why is it only science where people try to fill the gaps with God? It's such lazy thinking. Thank goodness we've got people who think beyond that.

Duckdeamon · 05/08/2015 16:45

To return to the OP, MIL is unlikely to be the last person to express beliefs to the DC, there are prayers at school for a start!

I really disagree with the current, longstanding law that state schools in England must conduct "worship" - have heard anecdotally that it is amongst the laws most often ignored (it certainly was when I was at school), which if true is a good thing IMO.

ZingDramaQueenOfSheeba · 05/08/2015 16:46

lemon

insult away. makes no difference to me

LemonCream · 05/08/2015 16:57

I didn't insult you. You insulted yourself by claiming to believe your god is responsible for your brain and thoughts.

Interesting that you took it as an insult when I highlighted it, though. Demonstrates what an awful and rather shameful thing it is to believe.

ZingDramaQueenOfSheeba · 05/08/2015 17:00

why do you accept me to prove anything to you, anyway?
again, I have faith, I believe what I believe.

human understanding is tiny compared to what we don't know.
I have faith, through which I understand some things, but not everything.
it's not my job to prove anything.
you can not rely on human wisdom, it's incomplete.

ZingDramaQueenOfSheeba · 05/08/2015 17:01

you said pathetic.
i you claim that's not an insult

ok then

ZingDramaQueenOfSheeba · 05/08/2015 17:02

*and you claim

ZingDramaQueenOfSheeba · 05/08/2015 17:02

*excpect
not accept

(I have a baby climbing on me, excuse typosGrin )

DoraGora · 05/08/2015 17:11

Zing, I think rude, arrogant, aggressive and wrong make up large parts of the atheist landscape. You get used to it after a while.