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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

AIBU for not wanting my MIL to discuss Jesus and heaven with my 5 year old?

999 replies

Spearshake · 04/08/2015 13:29

I was just having breakfast with my 5 year old son and he asked me, 'do only people who love Jesus go to heaven?; I asked him who told you that.
Unfortunately, my tone must have been a bit sharp (hey, first thing in the morning) so he said, 'I don't know'

(I know it's his grandma though (my MIL) because she has been staying with us for the last week and we haven't been in contact with anyone else who is likely to make such comments) Unless he has been on the evangelical channels again

The problem is that I am an atheist, so I have a tough time with such discussions. He asked me what God is the other day, and I asked him to wait until his father gets home and he can answer (he was brought up more religiously than me)

Any ideas from fellow mumsnetters of a similar religious (or non-) bent on how to deal with such ideas would be most welcome.

Thank you!

OP posts:
noblegiraffe · 05/08/2015 14:54

Douglas Adams
“This is rather as if you imagine a puddle waking up one morning and thinking, 'This is an interesting world I find myself in — an interesting hole I find myself in — fits me rather neatly, doesn't it? In fact it fits me staggeringly well, must have been made to have me in it!' This is such a powerful idea that as the sun rises in the sky and the air heats up and as, gradually, the puddle gets smaller and smaller, frantically hanging on to the notion that everything's going to be alright, because this world was meant to have him in it, was built to have him in it; so the moment he disappears catches him rather by surprise. I think this may be something we need to be on the watch out for.”

BertrandRussell · 05/08/2015 14:54

"They still cannot understand how it is we are here at all. They can't explain why our universe is tailor made to perfection for life to exist. The odds of this perfection to have happened by chance are so high they are incalculable."

It isn't. We evolved to fit the conditions available. If the conditions had been different we would have evolved differently to fit them.

And no, nobody does know exactly how life started. Yet. But eventually we will. In the mean time there is nothing wrong with saying "We don't know."

drudgetrudy · 05/08/2015 14:54

I thought that an atheist had a definite belief that there is no God whereas an agnostic just didn't know the answers.
There is a lot of arrogance on here from both believers and atheists-all we are is an intelligent animal-we don't know everything.
I'm in the "don't begin to understand" camp-I find the atheists particularly arrogant as some of them imply anyone who doesn't agree with them is a fool.

keepitsimple0 · 05/08/2015 14:55

tarashill

yes, there are questions which are well posed and science can't answer. it is that claim for which you have given ample evidence. My guess is every atheist would agree with you on that.

But what does that have to do with god?

CoteDAzur · 05/08/2015 14:57

"our universe is tailor made to perfection for life to exist"

Oh yes. All that vacuum at minus 455 F. Just perfect for life to exist Grin

Thankfully, God in His infinite mercy has made the universe so that your brain freezes before your lungs explode.

CoteDAzur · 05/08/2015 15:01

"I thought that an atheist had a definite belief that there is no God whereas an agnostic just didn't know the answers"

That's what I thought as well, and those probably were the definitions several decades ago. They seem to have moved towards these, though:

Agnostic: "Answers are unknowable".

Atheist: "There is no God" OR "I don't believe your God theory".

SmillasSenseOfSnow · 05/08/2015 15:02

I thought that an atheist had a definite belief that there is no God whereas an agnostic just didn't know the answers.

Agnostic and atheist are not two separate categories of the same kind. Agnostic is a qualifier. You can be an agnostic theist or an agnostic atheist. Most atheists are agnostic atheists.

SmillasSenseOfSnow · 05/08/2015 15:04

It seems to be only recently that some people have tried to make 'agnostic' into its own thing, and to redefine the word atheist to mean 'gnostic atheist'.

DoraGora · 05/08/2015 15:13

Oxford dictionaries online:

Definition of agnostic in English:
noun
A person who believes that nothing is known or can be known of the existence or nature of God.

CoteDAzur · 05/08/2015 15:19

It's good to see that you have started consulting references.

Have you looked up Appeal To Ignorance yet, Dora?

DoraGora · 05/08/2015 15:20

I'll check it while you're looking for arrogance and understanding.

CoteDAzur · 05/08/2015 15:23

Oh boo hoo. Now you hurt my feelings Grin

CoteDAzur · 05/08/2015 15:24

Come on, Dora. Let us know when you look up Appeal To Ignorance and understand why you were wrong with "You can't prove God doesn't exist, that means He does".

DoraGora · 05/08/2015 15:25

Well, you've got something else to fix, then, besides your logic.

DoraGora · 05/08/2015 15:26

I didn't say he exists. Maybe comprehension, too, while you're at it.

CoteDAzur · 05/08/2015 15:27

These feel like personal attacks, Dora. Are you sure you want to go down that road?

DoraGora · 05/08/2015 15:29

I think you started the jibes. If you want to make an argument, just make it.

BertrandRussell · 05/08/2015 15:36

If you want to make an argument, just make it."

But you won't engage!

tarashill · 05/08/2015 15:37

we evolved to fit the conditions available
"The conditions available" is the most puzzling of all. How can this be dismissed as of no consequence.

LemonCream · 05/08/2015 15:37

Of course atheism is a form of faith

It most certainly is not.

Atheism is the rejection of a particular claim usually on the basis that there's no evidence supporting it.

It is NO different from the rejection of the claim that Loch Ness is home to a primeval monster.

Is that a "faith" too?

Faith, in the religious sense of the word, is an explicit belief in something for which you have no evidence. Atheism cannot possibly meet this criteria, no matter how much you try to make it. Atheism makes no claims and supports no belief...it rejects them.

Individual atheists may, if they choose to, go further and claim there is no god but this has nothing to do with "faith". It's all about evidence...the one thing "faith" couldn't care less about.

Mehitabel6 · 05/08/2015 15:39

To get back to OP- we seems to have strayed from it.

Her problem appears to be that she feels awkward having a straight forward discussion with her child and just answering questions.

Firstly she wasn't in in the conversation and perhaps MIL was better at answering questions if it did come up, which it might well do if it is a big part of her life, then you can imagine her 5 yr old finding it interesting- some are very much at the 'why' stage and each 'why' leads to another.

Nothing wrong with her first response of 'who told you that?' Except the tone was wrong and with that and body language he realised she was annoyed and therefore clammed up. I expect he realised the attitude to grandma and didn't want to get her into trouble.

I can't see why she just didn't say, in mild, conversational tone 'did grandma say that?' He was far more likely to just say 'yes'. To which all she needed to say was 'well that is Grandma's belief and I don't believe that and most people who love Jesus don't, but we are all different. What comes next depends on whether he pursues it or just loses interest.

I can't see why as an atheist you have a problem with such discussions and have to resort to 'ask your father when he gets home' as if a religious background makes you more capable of answering questions. All you needed to do was a quick answer on what some people believe. You can then put in what you think. That either leads to more questions and a discussion and possibly saying that he will make up his own mind later or what does he think now. Quite possible a quick answer would have been enough.

Children are very interested in death - it is adults who shy away from it. You are lucky if you haven't had to cover the subject in a very personal way.

CoteDAzur · 05/08/2015 15:41

""The conditions available" is the most puzzling of all"

What is puzzling you? Tell us and let us help.

LemonCream · 05/08/2015 15:42

Or you could chose instead to believe in the capabilities of mankind, which, considering that he likes to spend a great proportion of his time in massacre and mayhem, one might say is equally stupid

100,000 years of people praying to God to cure their babies of malaria. Zilch.

Along comes science (with finances from Bill Gates) and we are on the brink of ridding the world of one of the most prolific and horrifying diseases imaginable.

Your god couldn't have given less of a shit. Thankfully human beings...when we are not all massacring each other, usually in the name of some religion....do;

Your POV is infantile and unsupportable. Unless you want to have the courage of your convictions and pray instead of dialling 999 (and getting science/mankind to help you) in the event of a heart attack? Would you?

DoraGora · 05/08/2015 15:43

Oxford online:

Definition of atheism in English:
noun
[mass noun]
Disbelief or lack of belief in the existence of God or gods.

Mehitabel6 · 05/08/2015 15:43

The question was 'how would we deal with her situation?' - not a debate on whether God exists or not. I can't see how that is helpful in dealing with future question, which are bound to crop up, unless he is a sensitive boy who has now decided that they are questions not to ask mum. Personally I would rather have the questions than a child thinking it a no go area.