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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

AIBU for not wanting my MIL to discuss Jesus and heaven with my 5 year old?

999 replies

Spearshake · 04/08/2015 13:29

I was just having breakfast with my 5 year old son and he asked me, 'do only people who love Jesus go to heaven?; I asked him who told you that.
Unfortunately, my tone must have been a bit sharp (hey, first thing in the morning) so he said, 'I don't know'

(I know it's his grandma though (my MIL) because she has been staying with us for the last week and we haven't been in contact with anyone else who is likely to make such comments) Unless he has been on the evangelical channels again

The problem is that I am an atheist, so I have a tough time with such discussions. He asked me what God is the other day, and I asked him to wait until his father gets home and he can answer (he was brought up more religiously than me)

Any ideas from fellow mumsnetters of a similar religious (or non-) bent on how to deal with such ideas would be most welcome.

Thank you!

OP posts:

Coffeemarkone · 05/08/2015 13:16

" My claim is that God's existence can neither be proven nor disproven. "
therefore ' 'logically' he must exist?
Is that some new type of logic then?

DoraGora · 05/08/2015 13:18

Nope. It can be neither proven nor disproven.

That's it.

BigDorrit · 05/08/2015 13:22

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

KingOfTheBongo · 05/08/2015 13:25

Of course atheism is a form of faith. There is objective uncertainty about the origins of life and this universe, at least to anyone who hasn't been brainwashed. If you are completely undecided wrt this uncertainty, then you are an agnostic. If you think it involves some sort of god, you are a theist. If you commit yourself to the position that it didn't involve a god, you are an atheist.

What is the big deal anyway? We all have faith in something. No need to pretend otherwise, it doesn't make you irrational, you know.

DoraGora · 05/08/2015 13:26

Or you could chose instead to believe in the capabilities of mankind, which, considering that he likes to spend a great proportion of his time in massacre and mayhem, one might say is equally stupid.

In fact, I'd say that.

noblegiraffe · 05/08/2015 13:29

Or you could chose instead to believe in the capabilities of mankind, which, considering that he likes to spend a great proportion of his time in massacre and mayhem, one might say is equally stupid.

Have you even read the Bible? You've just pretty much described Jesus's dad.

DoraGora · 05/08/2015 13:33

No problem, I can choose to believe either in the capabilities of mankind or the capabilities of God, or in neither, if I want. I don't much like believing in nothing and I don't think much of mankind.

drbadbride · 05/08/2015 13:38

If you are completely undecided wrt this uncertainty, then you are an agnostic. If you think it involves some sort of god, you are a theist. If you commit yourself to the position that it didn't involve a god, you are an atheist.

Or if, having waded through 16 pages of well-worn arguments, you really couldn't give a shit any more, you are an apathist.

noblegiraffe · 05/08/2015 13:41

What the bloody hell does 'choose to believe in the capabilities of mankind' mean?

DoraGora · 05/08/2015 13:43

Ask yourself that just before you vote at the next general election.

CoteDAzur · 05/08/2015 13:44

"If you commit yourself to the position that it didn't involve a god, you are an atheist."

Actually, the definition of 'atheist' includes those who just don't buy the God hypothesis:

Christian: My belief is that an omniscient, omnipotent, benevolent deity created the universe and us with it, and will judge us according to our acts when we die, then send us to eternal bliss or eternal suffering.

Atheist: That sounds like a lot of nonsense. You have no proof and I don't buy any of it.

tarashill · 05/08/2015 13:46

Given that all the evidence we have points to this deity not existing
What is that evidence?

BertrandRussell · 05/08/2015 13:49

Original poster

Spearshake · 05/08/2015 13:55

Ha ha! I should get my MIL on this post to join forces with you DoraGora - I feel like you are a lone Christian voice here. It wasn't my intention to start a theological debate, more a moral debate. But, I see how it came to that. And it's been interesting.

My DS has just turned 5 and he really is too young to grasp certain concepts, but I am always up for answering his questions - whether they are difficult to handle (ie, as one poster mentioned, asking about prison, etc), or distasteful to me (ie, as in MIL talking of needing to love Jesus to get to heaven), or just weird (and you all know the type of questions I mean)

The difficult thing is finding an age-appropriate way to handle these questions, which takes some quick-thinking and creative turns.

OP posts:

noblegiraffe · 05/08/2015 14:00

Dora, God is not on the ballot paper so I'm still not sure what your point is.

noblegiraffe · 05/08/2015 14:05

Given that all the evidence we have points to this deity not existing
What is that evidence?

I asked God to set my bullock on fire and it didn't work.

keepitsimple0 · 05/08/2015 14:06

What is that evidence?

depends on what your position is.

The evidence that the christian all-knowing, all-powerful and all-loving god doesn't exist is the in the countless number of innocent under 5s dying often painful deaths.

The evidence that some god doesn't exist isn't there. But surely that's not enough to believe in him/her? i.e a lack of evidence for non-existence is not sufficient for believing? I also can't prove that pink unicorns don't exist, so my default position is to believe they don't. I could be wrong, but it's unlikely. I live my life as if they don't exist. I don't put food out for them daily.

Lurkedforever1 · 05/08/2015 14:11

By all means dora say you have blind faith despite all logic and known science indicating otherwise, that's fine, and pretty much what every religious person I've ever enjoyed interesting and friendly debate with tends to explain their belief as. But don't try and argue gods existence from a logical proof point of view, it sounds ridiculous.
Personally I believe the universe is on a disc, on the back of four elephants stood on a turtle that's swimming through space. And when we die we meet a being in a cowl with a magical horse. I even have sacred texts declaring it to be so. The theory of a giant child with a 'my own solar system' smacks of heresy based on Stephen king worship and the heretical theories of his holy 'dome' scripture. And after death any heretics believing this will be sent to an eternal m25 rush hour with nothing but a mills and boon book, cliff Richards played on an endless loop and sprouts to eat.

DoraGora · 05/08/2015 14:14

I haven't argued for God's existence.

Gruntfuttock · 05/08/2015 14:21

I'm stunned by Lurkedforever1's post. Finally, I know that there's someone else who shares my beliefs.

CoteDAzur · 05/08/2015 14:23

considering that he likes to spend a great proportion of his time in massacre and mayhem, one might say is equally stupid.
Have you even read the Bible? You've just pretty much described Jesus's dad.

Lurkedforever1 · 05/08/2015 14:31

Excellent grunt! Where should we start our inquisition spreading the word?

tarashill · 05/08/2015 14:46

all means dora say you have blind faith despite all logic and known science indicating otherwise
On the contrary scientists are still no nearer the answer to this than ever. Try as they might they still haven't the slightest understanding of how the first living organisms came into being.
They still can't understand how conscienceless arose in living things.
They don't understand what it is that allows humans to understand the mysteries of biology, science, engineering and medicine, or to be able to create great works of art and music.
They still cannot understand how it is we are here at all. They can't explain why our universe is tailor made to perfection for life to exist. The odds of this perfection to have happened by chance are so high they are incalculable. The most minute particles of matter so unbelievably complicated. Every time they think they have the answer they hit a brick wall.

SmillasSenseOfSnow · 05/08/2015 14:50

They still cannot understand how it is we are here at all. They can't explain why our universe is tailor made to perfection for life to exist. The odds of this perfection to have happened by chance are so high they are incalculable.

Whilst I'm not up to speed on how far scientists have got with e.g. abiogenesis, I was giving you the benefit of the doubt until this part. This part is utter bullshit. Our universe is quite obviously not tailor made to perfection for life to exist, so why would anyone want a scientist to explain it being so? I don't know whether you're intellectually dishonest or just woefully ignorant.

CoteDAzur · 05/08/2015 14:52

"Try as they might they still haven't the slightest understanding of how the first living organisms came into being."

Have you not read a single article on this subject in the last 12 years? Scientists created a virus that reproduces from its base chemicals back in 2003.

"They still can't understand how conscienceless arose in living things"

That's a funny Freudian slip Consciousness, you mean.

We don't define consciousness properly, which confuses the issue. Is a plant conscious? It turns towards the sun, seems to enjoy music and experience distress. Does it have a soul? Seems to me to be a philosophical question rather than a scientific one.

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