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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

AIBU for not wanting my MIL to discuss Jesus and heaven with my 5 year old?

999 replies

Spearshake · 04/08/2015 13:29

I was just having breakfast with my 5 year old son and he asked me, 'do only people who love Jesus go to heaven?; I asked him who told you that.
Unfortunately, my tone must have been a bit sharp (hey, first thing in the morning) so he said, 'I don't know'

(I know it's his grandma though (my MIL) because she has been staying with us for the last week and we haven't been in contact with anyone else who is likely to make such comments) Unless he has been on the evangelical channels again

The problem is that I am an atheist, so I have a tough time with such discussions. He asked me what God is the other day, and I asked him to wait until his father gets home and he can answer (he was brought up more religiously than me)

Any ideas from fellow mumsnetters of a similar religious (or non-) bent on how to deal with such ideas would be most welcome.

Thank you!

OP posts:

BertrandRussell · 05/08/2015 11:03

Oh, I do wish people were better at thinking! it's sooooooo depressing.

noeffingidea · 05/08/2015 11:10

stitchingmoss that sums up my position perfectly.I think of it as being 'religion free'.

noblegiraffe · 05/08/2015 11:11

I think I'd be baffled and a bit disappointed if my children found faith. I don't really understand how a rational adult can come to it without a childhood of indoctrination, and everyone wants their children to be on the same sort of level as them in their thinking.

I suppose Christian parents would feel similarly baffled if their Christian child grew up and converted to Islam. They wouldn't understand the reasoning, and be disappointed that it set them apart from each other in a way.

StitchingMoss · 05/08/2015 11:18

I've not known any adult friends of mine brought up by atheist parents find religion as an adult but I suppose it's not beyond the bounds of possibility.

My parents were both atheists but never really worried about what we were being exposed to at school or Guides, but supported are choices. I'm sure they're delighted they raised 4 atheists!

StitchingMoss · 05/08/2015 11:19

Our choices!

ElementaryMyDearWatson · 05/08/2015 11:23

Tarashill, do you also wonder whether religious people, in their eagerness to pass on their beliefs to their children, say in an authoritive tone "God certainly exists" rather than "I believe in God"?

noblegiraffe · 05/08/2015 11:24

Actually I'd be more than disappointed if my children subscribed to one of the many religions available that have issues with women and homosexuals.

tarashill · 05/08/2015 11:29

Yes I have wondered that actually elementary, it's not something I've ever done myself, but I do think that if people try to force religion down someone's throat they'll get the opposite to what they were hoping to achieve.

HPsauciness · 05/08/2015 11:30

I've not known any adult friends of mine brought up by atheist parents find religion as an adult but I suppose it's not beyond the bounds of possibility

I have, and my parents find it weird and a bit disappointing or just don't mention it in the hopes it goes away. I don't mind, I'm not living my life to gain their approval. It would be kind of weird if your children were clones of you and your beliefs.

AlanPacino · 05/08/2015 11:30

neither does an atheist that there isn't.

Going on that line of logic and reasoning I assume you believe in everything that you can't prove not to be true. So you are a follower of every single religion and belief system anyone has ever followed? If not then you are an intellectual hypocrite and you do not actually stand by what you are saying.

tarashill · 05/08/2015 11:35

You don't have to be the follower of every single religion (or any for that matter) to believe in God AlanPacino. I just happen to believe.

keepitsimple0 · 05/08/2015 11:47

Atheist here.

It seems to me that it's wrong to tell kids about hell. It's borderline abusive. I find Christians who complain about protecting the innocence of kids in modern life rather hypocritical on this point. I tread lightly when telling my kids about prison (where adults go for a 'time out'), so I certainly don't want them to think there is a place like hell, especially given it's fictional and isn't presented as such.

God is a bit different. My parents are religious but DP's are not, so they will get God talk from that side. I think it's perfectly fine to talk about God, but as I have been raising my kids to value reason and ask for evidence, I will double down on that when if I find someone is preaching to them. I will ask them what they think and ask preacher how they know what/who god is.

while I am an atheist, it's less important to me that my kids are atheists than clear thinkers.

keepitsimple0 · 05/08/2015 11:48

I just happen to believe.

but how do you choose? What have you seen in the world that supports your version of god, but disproves the existence of Zeus?

AlanPacino · 05/08/2015 11:52

you don't have to be a follower of every single realigion

I said that to a poster who said that an atheist can't prove a god doesn't exist. If you agree with that statement you should believe in and follow all gods otherwise you're being a hypocrite because there is just as much evidence for all of them, ie, none.

DoraGora · 05/08/2015 12:56

I think not. My claim is that God's existence can neither be proven nor disproven.

Point 3 is false. My statement is, since my claim (directly above) is true, the denial of it is false.

SolidGoldBrass · 05/08/2015 12:58

Dora: if you are happy and proud to be lazy-minded then that's fine. But don't expect other people to take you seriously, what with your imaginary friend and all that.

DoraGora · 05/08/2015 13:02

Right, insults are going to work where logic failed. I see.

noblegiraffe · 05/08/2015 13:07

Come on, we've got a poster called Bertrand Russell, why has no one mentioned teapots? He sorted all this out years ago.

LemonCream · 05/08/2015 13:08

DoraGora Most proposed gods can be and have been disproved. You are mistaken.

The moment any god is defined and given abilities and attributes, it can be disproved.

"Atheists cannot prove that god doesn't exist" is the best example of the wonkly logic that keeps faith alive. Definitive proof that something does not exist is a) impossible and b) irrelevant.

There is no proof that Lord Vishnu is not real. Better be a Hindu then?

noblegiraffe · 05/08/2015 13:10

Here's what Russell had to say:

"I ought to call myself an agnostic; but, for all practical purposes, I am an atheist. I do not think the existence of the Christian God any more probable than the existence of the Gods of Olympus or Valhalla. To take another illustration: nobody can prove that there is not between the Earth and Mars a china teapot revolving in an elliptical orbit, but nobody thinks this sufficiently likely to be taken into account in practice. I think the Christian God just as unlikely."

DoraGora · 05/08/2015 13:12

Well, of course it keeps faith alive! If it could be proven that God did not exist then it wouldn't be possible to believe that he did. You don't need logic and bullet points to work that out!

LemonCream · 05/08/2015 13:12

I think, DoraGora that the best way to make your case is to show that your argument is relevant.

Your god cannot be disproved. You think this matters.

Please show....with your working out....how you would prove that pink unicorn overlords do not rule the universe.

Once you realise that you can't prove this, please explain why you think this is a good enough to reason to believe the unicorns exist.

CoteDAzur · 05/08/2015 13:13

"where logic failed"

Bless It wasn't logic that failed.

On that subject, have you looked up Appeal To Ignorance yet? You know, the Logical Fallacy that you commit when you say "If you can't prove God doesn't exist, that means he does".

DoraGora · 05/08/2015 13:15

I'm not saying that he does.

LemonCream · 05/08/2015 13:16

That works for anything.

It's intellectually dishonest for you not to realise that.

You need an excuse to believe something that is patently not true....and "Well you can't prove it isn't" is the best you have.

I suppose Tom Cruise is perfectly justified in believing in alien souls since you cannot prove he's wrong?

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