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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

AIBU for not wanting my MIL to discuss Jesus and heaven with my 5 year old?

999 replies

Spearshake · 04/08/2015 13:29

I was just having breakfast with my 5 year old son and he asked me, 'do only people who love Jesus go to heaven?; I asked him who told you that.
Unfortunately, my tone must have been a bit sharp (hey, first thing in the morning) so he said, 'I don't know'

(I know it's his grandma though (my MIL) because she has been staying with us for the last week and we haven't been in contact with anyone else who is likely to make such comments) Unless he has been on the evangelical channels again

The problem is that I am an atheist, so I have a tough time with such discussions. He asked me what God is the other day, and I asked him to wait until his father gets home and he can answer (he was brought up more religiously than me)

Any ideas from fellow mumsnetters of a similar religious (or non-) bent on how to deal with such ideas would be most welcome.

Thank you!

OP posts:
BertrandRussell · 05/08/2015 09:36

"Of course you can prove a negative. I can prove that I'm not, in fact, a dolphin."

Not to someone who can't see you, you can't. I can say that for all practical purposes you're not a dolphin, and something pretty radical must have happened to dolphin kind if you are- but I can't say with rock solid 100% certainty that you aren't. But you aren't. I know you aren't. All the huge weight of evidence shows that.

It's exactly the same for the non existence of God. All the huge weight of evidence shows he doesn't exist. So he doesn't. A leap of faith is required to say he does, because there is no evidence. New evidence might emerge tomorrow that shows that you are a dolphin or that God exists- but both are equally unlikely. So you aren't and he doesn't.

DoraGora · 05/08/2015 09:37

Well, OK. The dolphins in my area are good at typing.

Mehitabel6 · 05/08/2015 09:42

I have never met anyone who can prove God exists and equally none that can prove God doesn't exist.

Mehitabel6 · 05/08/2015 09:45

And people can see dolphins and know what they are. We equally don't think you are God, Dora.
I have to keep on putting in God and not 'he' because it is not an old man with a beard - ( if there is one).

noblegiraffe · 05/08/2015 09:45

No one can prove that Santa doesn't exist but that doesn't mean we need to hedge our bets when talking about his existence, just in case.

BertrandRussell · 05/08/2015 09:46

You could be dictating. You could be a shape shifter. You could be a super evolved dolphin from the future.

The point is that, while these things are vanishingly unlikely, you can't actually say with 100% certainty that they are false. That's what "you can't prove a negative" means. And that's why I can't prove that God doesn't exist. Because tomorrow a new piece of evidence might emerge. But I as confident that it won't as I am that you are not a super evolved dolphin from the future.

Mehitabel6 · 05/08/2015 09:47

We know Santa doesn't exist. If you don't organise Christmas your children won't get presents- and that is assuming you do the whole Santa bit.

Mehitabel6 · 05/08/2015 09:49

It all depends on your mind. A very literal person is never going to believe in God.

MackLin · 05/08/2015 09:49

Why are people afraid of discussing religious views with children? Whatever happened to being open minded?! If your son decides to become a Christian (or anything else) in future, then he's allowed to do so, no? Why must he be an atheist just because you are?

BertrandRussell · 05/08/2015 09:50

"We know Santa doesn't exist. If you don't organise Christmas your children won't get presents"

Same goes for prayer. And miracles. And any form of divine intervention.

DoraGora · 05/08/2015 09:50

Um, no. Those aren't dolphins. To prove something, you define it and test it. I think the rationalists are getting in a tail spin here.

maggieryan · 05/08/2015 09:50

As my Catholic mother always said and I think she has a point "let's see what all the non believers are going to do on their death bed.. Bet a lot of them will suddenly start believing :)

drudgetrudy · 05/08/2015 09:51

Someone else will say something like this to your child sooner or later if it isn't your MIL.
I think it gives you the opportunity for a discussion-some people think that the stories in the Bible are completely true, some people think they are just stories based on some historical things that happened. Most people don't think that only people who love Jesus go to heaven but some people do.

Very many people were brainwashed from all sides about religion as children but make up their own minds as adults and some people who were raised as atheists find a faith.

AlanPacino · 05/08/2015 09:53

hypocritical of atheists to deny their child knowledge

There is a HUGE difference between someone telling a child that some people believe in a God and someone telling a child that there is a god and a heaven and that they have to do certain things to get to heaven.

hackmum · 05/08/2015 09:53

There are a whole load of creatures that might exist: fairies, unicorns, the Abominable Snowman, the Loch Ness monster, ghosts, aliens who abduct people...people have indeed claimed to see these things. How can we be sure they don't exist? We can't - we just know it's very unlikely.

hackmum · 05/08/2015 09:54

maggieryan: "As my Catholic mother always said and I think she has a point "let's see what all the non believers are going to do on their death bed.. Bet a lot of them will suddenly start believing."

Imagine the shock the Catholics will have when they die and find the Muslims were right.

BertrandRussell · 05/08/2015 09:56

"Why are people afraid of discussing religious views with children? Whatever happened to being open minded?! If your son decides to become a Christian (or anything else) in future, then he's allowed to do so, no? Why must he be an atheist just because you are?"

Might I respectfully suggest you read the thread then come back?

DoraGora · 05/08/2015 09:57

Well, indeed. So, you can sit any particular protege down and say to him or her, various beings might or might not exist, but, as far as we know it's extremely unlikely that they do.

What's wrong with that?

BertrandRussell · 05/08/2015 10:00

"Um, no. Those aren't dolphins. To prove something, you define it and test it. I think the rationalists are getting in a tail spin here."

Ah, right. You are being very specific about what sort of dolphin. Well, it is easy to say that the sort of God who directly answers prayers doesn't exist. Because nobody has ever grown a leg back however hard they and others prayed for it.

TTWK · 05/08/2015 10:01

Dora, I'm a dolphin but God has given me the power to appear to humans in human form. Now prove I'm lying.
If Jesus can be the son of God in human form, why can't God have pulled the same trick with me.
Prove I've made this story up.

noblegiraffe · 05/08/2015 10:03

I like the Old Testament response to whether their God exists. They tested it, and of course he responded.
They had a competition with the prophets of Baal about which God could set fire to a bullock. God won, and they slaughtered all the prophets of Baal (of course!)

biblehub.com/niv/1_kings/18.htm

What do you think would actually happen if you called on God to set fire to a bullock?

Nowadays people wimp out with the 'oh you can't test God' excuse as to why their God fails every test.

DoraGora · 05/08/2015 10:04

TTWK, you're not lying. I'm off out to buy you a fish.

DoraGora · 05/08/2015 10:07

The reason we're asking for a test, is because the know it all atheists keep telling us that God doesn't exist. The problem is, they have no vague clue whether that's correct or not. They just enjoy saying it.

AlanPacino · 05/08/2015 10:08

your world must be a very confusing place

Why is an atheists world more confusing than a christian?

noblegiraffe · 05/08/2015 10:11

Actually Dora, I'm pretty certain he doesn't exist, and for excellent reasons.