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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

AIBU for not wanting my MIL to discuss Jesus and heaven with my 5 year old?

999 replies

Spearshake · 04/08/2015 13:29

I was just having breakfast with my 5 year old son and he asked me, 'do only people who love Jesus go to heaven?; I asked him who told you that.
Unfortunately, my tone must have been a bit sharp (hey, first thing in the morning) so he said, 'I don't know'

(I know it's his grandma though (my MIL) because she has been staying with us for the last week and we haven't been in contact with anyone else who is likely to make such comments) Unless he has been on the evangelical channels again

The problem is that I am an atheist, so I have a tough time with such discussions. He asked me what God is the other day, and I asked him to wait until his father gets home and he can answer (he was brought up more religiously than me)

Any ideas from fellow mumsnetters of a similar religious (or non-) bent on how to deal with such ideas would be most welcome.

Thank you!

OP posts:
Lurkedforever1 · 05/08/2015 01:03

Because under that theory of faith atheism isn't a faith, because there's no objective uncertainty.
Religious people have faith and believe despite having no proof whatsoever. Athiests don't believe, based on scientific fact. So there's no uncertainty to have faith in spite of.

Garlick · 05/08/2015 01:06

No, Bongo. You have misunderstood. The A in atheism means 'without'. Without belief in god/s.

I cannot 'commit' to something I don't have!

SmillasSenseOfSnow · 05/08/2015 01:19

Under this definition, atheism is definitely a faith, too. I'm curious to know why atheists so often refuse to acknowledge this? Why is it even important to them?

One could ask why being able to categorise atheism as faith is so important to you that you choose your definition of faith on the basis of it (in your mistaken belief) enabling you to do so?

crustsaway · 05/08/2015 01:31

Whilst Im also an atheist, im not sure I'd be too bothered about what granny says to be fair, so what? As long as she's not locking them in the cupboard due to their "sinning", does it really matter?

crustsaway · 05/08/2015 01:34

Ok then, I thought being an atheist meant that you didnt believe in anything? I don't. We live for however long and die, its very simple. I like a bit of proof.

SolidGoldBrass · 05/08/2015 01:37

The trouble is with the superstitious is not necessarily that they have imaginary friends - just as kids having imaginary friends can be sort of cute. It's when they start making a nuisance of themselves on behalf of their imaginary friends - insisting that other people acknowledge Pongo the Poop or whatever and obey it, that they need putting in their place.

Your imaginary friend is your problem, no one else's. And I don't care which mythology you subscribe to, they are all equally silly. Not one religious person can offer any real argument in favour of their imaginary friend's existence: all they do is stamp their feet and scream that Pongo the Poop really is real because they say so.

wafflyversatile · 05/08/2015 01:47

Your MIL brought up her children to be christians because that was her belief and she thought it important to pass on those beliefs. She's had her turn and now it is your turn to bring up your children with the values you (and your DH) consider to be important.

I don't think it necessarily matters that the subject matter is religion. It could equally apply to, for instance, vegetarianism. If you were bringing them up as vegetarians it would be wrong of her to serve them meat.

crustsaway · 05/08/2015 01:50

Or they think so Grin

A few of my DS's relatives are religious. It doesnt bother me nor does it bother him. Im a non believer in all this man made rubbish and so is he.

crustsaway · 05/08/2015 01:52

I also dont buy into vegetarianism. Everything in moderation is the way to go.

wafflyversatile · 05/08/2015 03:23

Of course atheism is not a faith. I actually quite resent havering to have a special word to describe myself. Faith in a god should be an opt in not an opt out situation.

There is no special word needed to identify yourself as not a lumberjack or not a cricket fan or not a potato.

nooka · 05/08/2015 03:33

My mother wasn't too bad when my children were young, but she does have a slight habit of recounting bible stories as if they are not just literally true but that she was actually there and experienced them. We find this a bit weird to say the least, and my children (teens now) are never quite sure how to respond except with a bit of a bewildered silence.

When they were little all the god stuff came from school (not a church school), and dd lapped it up and then got very cross with us when we told her that no we didn't think that any of it was true. I objected to that rather more than I would my mother preaching because teachers (back then) knew everything in dd's mind and so had great authority to her. Small children can be very literal minded, and me and dh saying that both Jesus and heaven are just stories and not to worry about it didn't wash so well. Very irritating.

So we just went on with explaining our views, talking to them about what they think and why plus introducing them to lots of myths and creation stories so that they could put their ideas and the things they had been told into context. Oh and a bit of philosophy as they got older too.

I've asked my sister and BIL (both ordained ministers) not to talk too much about their beliefs with either child because I am concerned that they still follow 'love the sinner, hate the sin' thinking which my children would likely find abhorrent, and I don't want a family rift.

ElementaryMyDearWatson · 05/08/2015 07:39

until someone can prove it to me that God doesn't exist I will believe that He does.

ZingDrama, it really doesn't work like that. By definition no-one can prove a negative. Can you prove to me that the sky isn't full of invisible pink elephants? Can you prove that we aren't in fact the playthings of a giant child with a "My Own Solar System" toy? Should we therefore believe that both those things are true?

Mehitabel6 · 05/08/2015 07:47

The vicars were not 'horrible fathers' - they had very good childhoods. They just made their own decisions as adults, the way that everyone does. They do not have to be a Christian because 'daddy was'.
I expect that you don't associate with a lot of committed Christians BertrandRussell if you only know one who didn't come from a Christisn home. My experience is very different. I am of a generation where we had a very good dose at school and many of us went to Sunday school or sang in the church choir or youth clubs were run by the church etc and very few are committed Christians, although some may go at Christmas and Easter possibly.
The committed Christians of my acquaintance found it for themselves as adults.
I agree crustaway - you can't control your child's whole environment. People are free to say what they like - unless it is so bad that you need to go NC . Generally it is not that bad and you can just have a discussion with the child. I can't imagine saying 'we cut contact with granny because she told you about Jesus when you were 5 yrs'!
Why have such censorship when children are interested? Use it for discussion and listen to your child- don't just talk.

Mehitabel6 · 05/08/2015 07:52

It is a faith. I think it would be dreadful if God was proved to exist- sort of spoils free choice.

fourtothedozen · 05/08/2015 07:57

An i nteresting comment.
So you can understand how inappropiate it is to share that faith with children.

Mehitabel6 · 05/08/2015 08:05

I am not arguing about sharing faiths. I am saying that you can't censor what granny is saying and you need to use it to have a discussion. Children are interested. Even young ones have district views if you bother to ask them.
I was very laid back with my children so would be more than a bit put out if they grow into control freaks who want to tell me what to say or not say to grandchildren. I answer questions - children have lots of them.I am not going to cop out with 'mummy has her own timetable for this'!

Mehitabel6 · 05/08/2015 08:08

The one person on these threads who would really make me want to explore religion would be SolidGoldBrass- I think that if I was a child I would be fascinated - she always makes it sound so exciting!

Mehitabel6 · 05/08/2015 08:09

district distinct.

drbadbride · 05/08/2015 08:26

OP, just play your kids this clip of the great (and late) comedian Dave Allen explaining religion. Then it will all make perfect sense Grin

Mehitabel6 · 05/08/2015 08:53

Or how about just answering children's questions honestly when they crop up? Hmm With 'I believe...........' Or ''some people believe........' Or 'granny believes....... ' and a 'what do you think?' Which will lead to further discussion.

Mehitabel6 · 05/08/2015 08:56

So many people appear to think a child is an empty vessel just waiting to be filled- rather than looking at your newborn baby and not having a clue who they are. The fun of being a parent is finding out.

Rockdoctor · 05/08/2015 09:13

drbadbride - that made me grin (and I didn't even open the link).

BertrandRussell · 05/08/2015 09:22

Once again, people find it impossible to make the distinction between telling your child about what other people believe and telling them what to believe. The difference is so obvious that I can only conclude there is deliberate misunderstanding going on.

If you refuse to grasp the distinction it is much easie to dismiss and minimise the concerns of us who do not want our children taught that a particular faith is the truth by a trusted and or loved adult.

DoraGora · 05/08/2015 09:22

Of course you can prove a negative. I can prove that I'm not, in fact, a dolphin.

hackmum · 05/08/2015 09:23

Elementary: "Can you prove that we aren't in fact the playthings of a giant child with a "My Own Solar System" toy?"

Well, that would explain a lot, actually. Smile

On the business of grandparents and what they can and can't say to your kids, I'd agree that this goes wider than religion. My late MiL, for example, used to come out with some mildly racist stuff from time to time - luckily my DD didn't pick up on it until she was about 8 or 9, by which time she knew enough to reject it. MiL's habit of feeding her kit-kats and packets of crisps at inappropriate times was more of a problem, which we never really got to grips with.

I tend to think that grandparents aren't nearly as much of an influence as parents or peer groups. If the OP's MiL is coming out with this religious stuff, she just needs to explain that this is what MiL believes, but not what she and her DH believe. It's an opportunity to explain some of the different ideas that different religions have, such as reincarnation. It's not Jesus or nothing.