AIBU - Dogs Off Lead

[PrincessOfChina]

So, in the park this PM. Small terrier type dog off lead with lady and two children. We're walking past (DS in pram and DD on scooter) and the dog leaves it's owner and circles DD on her scooter. I tell her to stay still and assume the owner will remove the dog so we can continue. She slowly ambles over by which time the dog is jumping up at DD (the dog is her height when upright).

Was I unreasonable to yell "Get your dog away from my daughter right now"? She seemed to think I was being unreasonable as the dog "didn't bite her did it?".

How should I react in future? I didn't move to hastily to grab DD as I didn't want to aggrevate the dog which wasn't showing signs of biting imminently.

Croatianmum- if you can get to Essex at all, Essex dog training club run a course for people with extreme fear of dogs / cynophobia. It's free and has an incredible success rate

betty, my big dog encountered a screamer once too. He was so astonished that he just backed off and barked and a couple of times. I thought she was just surprised by meeting a large dog by a turn in the path, but as soon as I twigged that she was terrified, I called him in.

I agree that you have to assess and reassess constantly as you walk a dog, on or off the lead, but I feel that muzzles, and leashes whenever people are in sight, are a bit OTT. Guess we'll have to agree to differ.

I have three dogs and would fully support all dogs being on leads at all times in public, with perhaps the provision of dog parks. We don't live in the UK and where we are this is the way it is anyway. I very, very rarely walk our dogs in public, usually just on our own land.
Muzzling all dogs in public is just ridiculous though, a muzzled dog can still cause broken bones, deep flesh tears etc and in a lot of cases makes the dog even more aggressive in a fight situation as it makes them more determined to do damage. Also, all of the owners with poorly trained dogs would be a danger to a muzzled dog who would be at a disadvantage defending itself.

yabu. as a dog lover and prev horse owner, keep off the bridle path with a dog leashed or otherwise. the clue is in the name! else it would be called "footpath"

MehsMum I muzzle my dog because I have experiences in the past when a dog I owned would nip from being touched on its tail. I did not want to risk him nipping when out and I have just kept it going with the next dogs.

I've also had someone claim my dog bit them when they haven't. My dog being muzzled and on a leash and at my heel at the time really did help when dealing with the council on that one because the lady in question was no where near.

Keeping dogs on leads Is very reasonable. On public paths, on city streets where the number of people is higher I would absolutely enforce it. Its common sense.

I keep my dog on a lead in woodlands and on the coastal paths because of the wildlife and my dog is a daft sod and would probably get stuck down a bloody cliff! I think for me, my area where there's lots of wildlife, horse riders, some protected birds are nesting very close by and the town I am in its absolutely they right thing.

StarsInTheNightSky I think it does depend on the type of muzzle used on a dog. Some really restrict their mouths so they can only just about drink. That would make any animal aggressive. sorry for the link but this highlights many of the reasons why I prefer to use one.
www.dogbehaviourconsultant.co.uk/#!The-Pros-and-Cons-of-Muzzling-Dogs/c1q6p/78DE19D4-DAF1-475D-B42E-52FEA9DCC17E

Betty I've rehabilitated highly aggressive dogs for years and never resorted to any kind of muzzle, nor will I ever resort to one. I have numerous objections to them that I won't go into here. That being said we've always lived in remote locations, I would not take on an aggressive dog if we didn't. I've seen the damage both muzzled and non muzzled dogs can do to a personand it isn't pretty. Being torn open by claws is just as unpleasant as being bitten. Still, as I said, we aren't in the UK and things are very different here, I need my dogs for protection for one reason.
I honestly believe that it is the responsibility of every owner to know their dog, assess them, monitor them and keep on assessing them, if you like using a muzzle, then great that it works for you, but never on my dogs.

it is the responsibility of every owner to know their dog, assess them, monitor them and keep on assessing them
agree, BUT as far as I can tell the majority of dog owners just get a dog and sort of muddle through.
with a small docile breed probably not such a big problem but anyone who feels like it is perfectly at liberty to get a pack of large powerful dogs

We have some lovely bridle ways round here. I've walked my dog on them for years. Haven't seen many horses on them but I would of course put my dog back on his lead should a horse wish to pass. As I do whenever we encounter horses on the road, which happens far more frequently. Nobody's horse seems to have exploded at the sight of a dog yet.

Found this:

A public bridleway is a way over which the general public have the following, but normally (only 'normally' because of Wildlife & Countryside Act 1981 at s56(1)(b) ) no other rights:

to travel on foot and
to travel on horseback or leading a horse, with or without a right to drive animals of any description along the way.
Note that although Section 30 of the Countryside Act 1968 permits the riding of bicycles on public bridleways, the act says that it "shall not create any obligation to facilitate the use of the bridleway by cyclists". Thus the right to cycle exists even though it may be difficult to exercise on occasion. Cyclists using a bridleway are obliged to give way to other users on foot or horseback.

Interestingly it doesn't say that dogs aren't permitted.

dog threads seriously do bring out all the tooth gnashers, don't they.

surely it's just common sense. if your dog is not good with other dogs or people, or not well trained etc and will run away, keep it on a leash. Fair enough. But my dog is tiny, docile, completely uninterested in other people and other dogs for the most part, and never strays more than about three feet away from me. So no, I won't leash her in a wide open green space. I want her to be able to run around.

And yes, I do pick up her poo.

this morning - slightly later with our morning constitutional I was taking my dog (off lead but he is 11 years old and walks by my side most of the time)
saw another dog with owner in the distance (said dog running amok) so leashed mine and stood to one side so they could pass.
unfortunately other dog decided he would confront mine in spite of being half his size and the owner (being idiotic) did nothing to leash or recall his dog with the result that my dog was upset with said spaniel (my dog particularly dislikes spaniels) being in his face and sniffing round nether regions - owners response - he just wants to play, he is only young, he is a rescue dog - but perhaps seeing me holding my dog should have prompted him to walk past preferably with his dog restrained/recalled in some way. aaargh - this happens so often

was waiting for the accusation of 'you are cruel to your dog not letting him run amok' but fortunately he did not say this

Likewise maybebaby, we walk ours off the lead because we can trust that she will not approach anyone, she just has no interest. Previous dogs we have owned have been the exact opposite and so they were more often than not on the lead.
Where we live you will see up to twenty dogs off the lead at any one time, there is definitely not an appetite for keeping dogs on the lead!

when did off-lead become the norm - back in my young days the only dogs off-lead would be farmers dogs going about their business on their own land

As a dog owner YANBU. i have a very soppy spaniel puppy who loves everyone and wants to be everyones friend. Therefore, she is on lead on all paths and only let off when no1 else is around or with other dog owners that we know. If we are walking and I see another person she is either placed on lead or her collar is held until we are passed. From someone who was petrified of dogs until about a year ago I can see both points of views. I hated dogs and would rather walk in the road then walk past one, it was my decision to get over my fear and being told my dog owners 'she is fine or he won't hurt you' really wasn't helpful to my fear and wasn't going to magically get over it. Even now I still find large dogs who jump up a bit nerve wracking and those that are nowhere near their owners in a public place can put people and dogs in danger. You will never get everyone to pick up poo but MOST dog owners do and yet we still all get a bad reputation. Also please do pet or feed a dog without asking permission! Yes my dog is friendly but she might not be or might be scared of something so just randomly allowing yourself or your child to pet her could be a recipe for disaster.
OP - In my eyes you did nothing wrong telling the owner to recall her dog. If she was trying to do so then maybe not but from your story she wasn't making any effort which drives me mad. I know dog walking is messy, mine likes to swim and get muddy and I never wear nice clothes to walk her in, still drives me mad when other owners allow their dogs to jump up at me and leave mud all over my clothes. It is common sense but it seems the majority of people don't seem to have it anymore. I do wish that there were more dog parks etc though as it would reduce this conflict massively.

*do not pet a dog that is meant to be

I think dog-parks or dog-zones within parks are a great idea. I wish there was a law that says all dogs must be kept on leads in public places, with the exception of dog-zones/ dog-parks.

I'd like to be able to enjoy my local park without loose dogs bounding everywhere. How can you tell whether they're under control or not, if the owner is far away? Like many people, I get nervous around loose dogs. My FIL has a phobia of dogs (after being attacked) and won't venture anywhere where dogs are off leads. I think it's really selfish when people let dogs run ahead, even if they don't approach people they're still loose animals that are unpredictable and could jump up, bite or knock someone over.
I think parks should be primarily for people to enjoy, and letting your dog off the lead spoils the park for many people. It would be nice if everyone could spread a picnic out on the grass, play ball-games with their kids and generally enjoy being outdoors without loose dogs putting them on edge.

when did off-lead become the norm - back in my young days the only dogs off-lead would be farmers dogs going about their business on their own land
It's always been the norm here (rural East Anglia). In fact, when I was a kid (70s), some dogs were kicked out of the house for the day and allowed to wander the streets. This was considered a bit antisocial, but not totally outrageous.

mehs - maybe there were fewer dogs then, less traffic. and rural was 'rural' and the dogs sorted themselves into an 'orderly' hierarchical pack
I do like to see dogs running free and zigzaging across fields in pursuit of interesting smells but the owners bear some responsibility to ensure recall is possible if needed, carry a lead and be prepared to restrain an overenthusiastic dog and take some responsibility for teaching a dog to walk to heel and/or be good on the lead.

We do have dog parks. They are called parks. Because hard as it may be for some to grasp, dog owners also like to enjoy public spaces and have an equal right to.
A phobia or even a fear of dogs does not trump the rights of responsibile dog owners to use a communal public space just because a minority of people are knobs who also happen to own dogs. My dd has just as much right to enjoy a walk across the park that also includes her pet as anyone else. If someone was to object that's just as selfish as if I let the dog invade other people's space. And for the record, I mean body space. A communal area is not the space of one individual alone.
It's incredibly judgy and ignorant to lump all dog owners together.

when I was a kid (70s), some dogs were kicked out of the house for the day and allowed to wander the streets. This was considered a bit antisocial, but not totally outrageous.

YY there were a number of dogs that used to take themselves for walks around the estate when I was a child. I agree it was viewed as a bit low class but I don't remember these dogs causing a problem.

Even their shit was inoffensive because invariably they'd be fed cheap stuff that used to produce crumbly white shit.

Our dog was mostly kept on a lead because she wasn't safe in traffic or around small animals - squirrels, rabbits, cats - though a cat could probably defend itself against her.

She was scared of small dogs, except our jack russell who could be trusted to be off the lead more often. She was possibly scared because they could reach up and disembowel her. He had her belly. She was very friendly with people though - totally tolerant of the odd child who'd get over-excited and tweak her feathered tail - and very elegant so humans generally liked her.

We did used to let her off the lead on common land and watch her run with the JR trying to keep up. It was a marvellous sight and she enjoyed it as much was we and many other people did.

Some people might have thought she was running amok. She wasn't. She was interesting in running. Not running at them and we had as much right to use common land as they did.