AIBU - Dogs Off Lead

[PrincessOfChina]

So, in the park this PM. Small terrier type dog off lead with lady and two children. We're walking past (DS in pram and DD on scooter) and the dog leaves it's owner and circles DD on her scooter. I tell her to stay still and assume the owner will remove the dog so we can continue. She slowly ambles over by which time the dog is jumping up at DD (the dog is her height when upright).

Was I unreasonable to yell "Get your dog away from my daughter right now"? She seemed to think I was being unreasonable as the dog "didn't bite her did it?".

How should I react in future? I didn't move to hastily to grab DD as I didn't want to aggrevate the dog which wasn't showing signs of biting imminently.

Like many people, I'm nervous around large dogs. I hate it when dogs run up to me, even if they only want to sniff my ankles. I avoid walking in areas where people let dogs off the lead a lot. In our local park there are lots of dogs off the lead, which makes it difficult to relax or enjoy a picnic. The same on local canal paths and woodland walks. It really annoys me when owners let their dog rush at you and call out 'don't worry he's friendly'. I still don't want him sniffing me, jumping up or running round me in circles!

Unless your dog is trained to ignore people and give them a wide berth (and not rush at them or try to squeeze past them on narrow paths) IMO he should be on a lead in all public places.

I wish dog owners would realise some people are really scared of dogs. I get nervous just being near dogs that are off the lead... if one bounds up to me I feel panicky and freeze.

It's a shame there aren't specific 'dog' zones in the UK where owners can exercise dogs off the lead, away from people who don't like dogs and want to enjoy being outdoors without feeling anxious.

they played with each other fairly roughly and made a lot of noise - again I repeat, away from people. I was used to this and the dogs were having a ball, anyone used to dogs would smile because they would see the dogs were having a ball. However people who were not used to dogs would become quite worried

I would find this very scary. A pair of big dogs playing roughly and making a lot of noise... I'd assume they were fighting, and wouldn't want to go anywhere near them. I don't think it is ever appropriate to let your dogs behave like this in a public place where people may be walking (I know you said it's away from people but you also said people nearby were worried and clutching their children, so it obviously wasn't an isolated spot). Fair enough if it's your own land or garden... not ok if it's a public place! As their owner you see 'dogs playing noisy rough game' another person sees 'out of control aggressive dogs who may turn on us'

I know a lady who regularly walks her two GS's off the lead at our local park.
They do sprint after children and the dog owners response, upon seeing the children running to their parents to get away from the dogs, is to scream at the children 'STOP RUNNING!!'.
We try to avoid going within 500 yards of her dogs when we see her at the park, because despite being spoken to by parents, she refuses to put her dogs on the lead when out walking them. She blames the children for running away when her dogs give chase.
Not sure what else we can do except stay as far away as possible when we see her with the dogs.

Lurked, we all have to rub along with each other on our overpopulated island. The argument that your rights would be infringed if you had to keep your dogs on leads in public just doesn't work. There are lots of things people would like to do but don't because of the impact on other people.

Keeping dogs is a lifestyle choice. If you choose that lifestyle you should make sure that it has the smallest impact possible on other people. One of the things dog owners could do to minimise the impact their lifestyle choice has on others is to keep their dogs on leads at all times when in a public place.

Incorrect stripey. My actual preference is my dog going loose wherever I please, it and previous ones would love to greet every kid, follow dd into kid areas, run next to cyclists etc. I don't do that or think anybody else has any right to the attitude 'I like dogs so tough shit if you don't'. You're attitude is the reverse, 'I don't like dogs so tough shit if you do'. The middle ground is the sensible compromise where dog owners don't let loose dogs approach others without permission. Doing what you want is not the middle ground or a compromise, it's selfish.
A dislike of an animal that's played a massive role as a companion as well as working animal through history is also a choice, and you can reduce the impact of your choice by not objecting to well trained and well behaved dogs belonging to responsible owners being off lead.

Clearly no point in me responding to anything you say Lurked. You are obviously of the view that dogs and dog owners "rights" are more important than anyone else's. To me that seems incredibly selfish, but I'm just going to leave this thread now rather than get drawn in to arguing about your lifestyle choice.

All dog owners I know, myself included, make sure our dogs don't approach strangers. Especially children! If my two jumped up they would knock a grown man over. They don't jump up but I wouldn't take the chance. If be mortified if they hurt someone, because yes that old cliche all they want to do is play and they don't realise their power or size. Hence they are not let off the lead unless in a remote area that's isolated and no one is around.

Nah, just of the view your rights don't trump mine anymore than mine should trump yours and we should stick to the considerate middle ground.

Lilac are you serious?! Did you read my post? The whole point was that I put the dogs on lead two at a time so they would not play together and scare people!

Also as a general point I do think everyone has an obligation to inform themselves about animals and how to behave around them. Recognising signs of an aggressive dog, knowing what spooks a horse on the road, how to behave around cattle, etc. are all quite important skills if you are going to find yourself around these animals.

So the dogs only went off the lead in pairs

Sorry Booboostwo I thought you meant they played roughly and noisily in pairs instead of in a pack of four.

I agree people need to know how to behave around animals. I can recognise signs of aggression in dogs, and how to reduce likelihood of an attack... but I still feel intimidated if a dog hurtles towards me across a field. I don't know whether it's going to jump up, crash into me, stop and sniff me, or sidestep around me. Why should members of the public be expected to predict the dog's behaviour? It can be hard to tell when a dog is over-excited and when it's out of control, or if it's likely to switch from excited to aggressive. That's why if you let them off the lead I think you need to train them not to charge towards people, to always give people a wide berth, and ideally call them to heel when you spot someone walking in your direction. Recently I was walking in the countryside when a woman approached on a narrow path with 2 big dogs. The dogs were running ahead and she didn't call them back, so I ended up meeting the dogs first. There wasn't much room to pass so I stopped and waited (very anxiously!) while the dogs sniffed at me. I called out to the owner 'please call your dogs back' and she cheerily shouted 'they won't hurt you, they're ever so friendly!' I still didn't want to squeeze past them so I shouted at her to call them to heel and hold them so we could get past. She did as I asked, but she was obviously cross and felt I was making a fuss.

Slight aside - Essex dog training in Brentwood run free cynophobia classes for kids, have amazing success rate, so we'll worth looking into if your kids are scared of dogs and you're anywhere near there

Lilac of course they did not play noisily in pairs, otherwise what would have been the point?

Members of the public should want to be able to predict a dog's behaviour because this is a world that contains dogs. As a driver you should know to pass a horse wide and slow or you may get one coming through your windscreen, as a pedestrian you should be able to predict the behaviour or cars or you may get run over. Understanding dog body language is a crucial, safety skill.

No amount of knowing how to behave around dogs stops me from being allergic to them - if one jumps up at me or my son, I can do what I can to minimise the chances of getting bitten but I can't stop either of us from getting hair/spit on us and me coming out in a painful rash that lasts for days with potential breathing difficulties thrown in.

My daughter is terrified of dogs and this would've really upset me. Owners have to think of others. Not everyone likes dogs!

YANBU to not what the dog near your child but your response was OTT and it's no wonder children develop fears of dogs

You are not being unreasonable.

I don´t really go to parks because of that very small percentage of dog owners who let their dogs jump on people. As a child I saw my friend´s face bitten by a dog and so I am very very scared of dogs (more of dog owners, really...I can´t really hold anything against a dog).

I do understand that dogs need to run around in the fresh air. I would never want them to have to be on leads all of the time. In an ideal world, parks could be divided between ones where dogs can run freely and ones where dogs must be on a lead (or not at all - I am quite paranoid about dog poo as well).

Whenever I see posts which blithely suggest if you behave "correctly" near dogs it's always safe I feel queasy.

I was attacked age 5 by an Alsation. I was walking down the street and neither I nor anyone else even saw it coming.
The owner tried to excuse himself by lecturing about how the dog was guarding the van and I'd walked too near to it (it was parked on the street).

The "rules" dogs have might make them predictable to those who know them, but they're not universal. There are quirks and histories that can make gestures, genders or objects triggering.
We can't teach kids every trigger for every dog.

FWIW I'm now as nervous of walking close to parked vans as I am of "hidden" large dogs (barking when I can't see a dog terrifies me).
I bet that owner still blames my lack of correct behavior ... walking past his van on a thoroughfare.

...oh and in the 80s the phobia therapy consisted of being told that if I was scared the dogs would single me out and attack me cause they could "smell my fear".

Panda YY my neighbour used to have 2 enormous dogs who were not aggro at all ... but the younger one knocked me over on some steps once saying "hello". Luckily no harm done.

Members of the public should want to be able to predict a dog's behaviour because this is a world that contains dogs. As a driver you should know to pass a horse wide and slow or you may get one coming through your windscreen, as a pedestrian you should be able to predict the behaviour or cars or you may get run over. Understanding dog body language is a crucial, safety skill

But can you realistically predict how an unknown dog will behave? If he's running straight at you, there isn't much time to observe his body language and decide how to respond. I agree people should know how to behave around dogs but the owner has a greater responsibility than the person out walking. You can't assume everyone understands dog behaviour. Some people have never had any contact with dogs and may simply panic if a dog approaches them or jumps up.

I don't think horses and cattle are a good comparison to dogs. Cattle live in fields and have no owner or training, so are unpredictable; you enter a field of cows at your own risk. Re horses, I wouldn't ride my horse on a road if he wasn't well-schooled and good in traffic. Yes car-drivers should know to pass wide and slow, not do anything to spook him etc, but you can't rely on this. Why should I expect the average person to understand his body language? As the rider you're responsible for your horse's behaviour, just like a dog owner. A horse that spooks easily or gets out of control is a hazard in a public place. And I wouldn't let my horse canter in a field where people are walking so why is it ok to let dogs charge at people? If he was nervous or hard to control I'd stick to bridleways. It's a shame we don't have designated 'dog-ways' where owners can let dogs off leads, run ahead, enjoy freedom etc without upsetting people walking. That way all public footpaths could require all dogs to stay on leads and no-one would miss out on enjoying the countryside.

*should have read 'have no owner present'