AIBU - Dogs Off Lead

[PrincessOfChina]

So, in the park this PM. Small terrier type dog off lead with lady and two children. We're walking past (DS in pram and DD on scooter) and the dog leaves it's owner and circles DD on her scooter. I tell her to stay still and assume the owner will remove the dog so we can continue. She slowly ambles over by which time the dog is jumping up at DD (the dog is her height when upright).

Was I unreasonable to yell "Get your dog away from my daughter right now"? She seemed to think I was being unreasonable as the dog "didn't bite her did it?".

How should I react in future? I didn't move to hastily to grab DD as I didn't want to aggrevate the dog which wasn't showing signs of biting imminently.

Crying laughing at that clearly sarcastic post saying they should be muzzled and not off lead in public. And recommending those silly extension leads and collars. When actually responsible owners train their dogs or have them on leads anyway. Too funny.

Lurkedforever1 try being bitten and needing stitches when another idiots dog tries to pull a tennis ball from your hands or a large dog on public path pushes your child into the road then having people tell you 'oh they only want to play' this happened on a public path outside houses!

Of course responsible dog owners train their dogs but even a trained dog can be unpredictable. They are animals. Something startles it, it'll run off. If it perceives something as a threat, it will bite and/or bark.

Ask any dog trainer, any person who works with animals professionally and they will tell you the same. Good training is essential but it does not negate the fact they are still animals and will behave unpredictably on occasions.

A friend has a dog and he uses the warning coat because his dog doesn't tolerate other dogs, he is absolutely fine with people but he still keeps it muzzled and kept on a lead. He knows when his dog that feels threatened (by other dogs) he can and will behave in unpredictable ways. The worst is he is being the responsible one Yet people still bring their dogs close to 'say hello' even after he tells them and moves out of the way. I've experienced it walking his dog when he's sick. Its a shame you can't train stupid people

Lurked, after all the posts on this thread, I am amazed that you don't seem to recognise that the vast majority of people who don't own dogs would prefer dogs to be kept on leads at all times in public places. I am beginning to think you are representative of a very selfish type of dog owner. I see people like this near where I live occasionally. There seems to be no understanding that other people's dogs - viscious or otherwise - are not welcome anywhere near me or my family.

By all means keep whatever pets you like, but recognise that they are your pets and that complete strangers do not wish to have any contact whatsoever with your pets.

What a pair of comedians, love it!

And with that post you have confirmed my suspicions about you Lurked. you should start a club for selfish dog owners, you can be president.

stripey Given what I've already said more than once about how I and my dog behave in public, and yet you are still ranting on I'm selfish because I don't agree with your irrational and illogical ideas, your posts have also confirmed my suspicions about you and what you should be president of, none of which are complimentary.
I'm not offended though, I realise that with you having no valid argument or logic to base your opinion on you've had to resort to insults in frustration.

Where's the insult Lurked? Think you're getting a bit defensive now with your imagined insults, you are quite amusing though.

Selfish is generally accepted as non complimentary. You're calling me selfish and rambling on about unwanted attention from dogs when I've already repeatedly said my dog doesn't approach anyone or anything without my permission, and I think other dog owners have a duty to do the same. But I'm selfish because I don't think leads are the answer.

Lurked, I've no doubt that in a utopian world of dog ownership all dogs would be glued to their owners sides at all times when out in public. I don't think even you would think that state of affairs is ever likely to come about so the answer is leads. Win win all round if dogs are always on leads when in public. No more out of control dogs with selfish dog owners and no grounds for the rest of us to complain.

I agree and I have a dog.

All should be leashed in public places. Roam and poo in their own garden space and if you havnt got a garden you shouldn't be allowed to have a dog.

It's pointless people yapping in about how responsible they are with their dogs. Afraid, like all laws, they apply to try commen denominator.

YANBU at all.

I have a fear of dogs not on leads particularly large ones so try to avoid places where dogs will be.

A few months ago me, DP and DD (aged 2) were walking along a residential road when suddenly we heard lots of barking. We turned around and were confronted by an aggressive dog snarling at us. The dog had got out of it's owners house when they opened the door to visitors and had crossed the road and raced straight to us (we were also further down the road than the house). I said that I didn't like dogs and that I wanted it to get away. The owners just stood in their garden watching. They could tell that we were scared of it attacking DD. The dog then ran into the road and then came back at us a further 5 times. The owners still just stood watching and half heartedly calling the dog back. Luckily in the end the dog went back towards it's house and the owner grabbed it back in. They didn't leave the garden to get the dog at all and also never apologised.

We ended up reporting them to the dog warden who said the dog was safe (not sure I agree with that) The owner was apparently pregnant. I shudder to think about that dog alongside a newborn.

OTOH my next door neighbour has a dog who sits outside with him all the time while my ndn works on his car. This dog never approaches anyone and will stay sitting unless commanded to stand. My daughter often goes near to say hello and still the dog remains sitting. This is how a dog should react.

Lurkedforever1 - your dog doesn't. Fair enough. The 'my dog doesn't do that' attitude doesn't matter. On a public Highway I still think all dogs should be on leads for everyone's safety. Yours, your dogs, pedestrians and motorists.

I don't think there is anything 'hilarious' in expecting people to keep their dogs on leads. In fact I am pretty sure it is an offence to have your dog off a lead and can be fined for failure to do so if an area has a PSPO or you are near play parks. Public highways are not clear but you can still be fined if your dog is deemed out of control

www.thekennelclub.org.uk/media/8277/law.pdf

Also here are some 'handy pointers' as to why I keep my dogs muzzled and on leads

"Your dog is considered dangerously out of control if it:

injures someone
makes someone worried that it might injure them"

So, back to the OP, that dog would be considered out of control.

www.gov.uk/control-dog-public/overview

By keeping a dog on a lead you are reducing the risk sure he might injure them OR leave them panicked it might injure them. Last thing I want is someone panicked, calling the council and me risking my dog being taken away. Its worth thinking about.

Your dog might not do that but there is ALWAYS the possibility they could.

I don't think I am being ridiculous in saying leads, muzzles and training protects me, my dog, other dogs and pedestrians.

Dogs on leads also protects the environment. Keeping them leashed stops them disturbing ground nesting birds amongst other wildlife. As well as protecting other domestic and farm animals.

www.gov.uk/government/publications/the-countryside-code

I've included the links for other MNers who might want clarification on the rules surrounding dogs, leads, Public space protection orders and so on.

Think it through stripey.
Responsible dog owners pick up their dogs shit. We have laws saying everyone must. Yet irresponsible dog owners still leave their dogs shit. It's not a rule that's actually working at all.
Responsible owners don't let their dogs encroach on others. Make a law about leads to try and stop irresponsible owners and it won't work either. They'll ignore it and continue to leave their dog loose and encroaching on others. Or eg I could put my large friendly dog on a lead and stand right at the entrance of a play area, squeeze close past you, have it bouncing around on a lead in your body space and still be abiding by the rule on leads. Or have it on the end of a flexi lead so after its jumped up or knocked over/ scared your kids it can tangle you up too. The irresponsible will still be able to do all that. And unlike the dog shit law, it won't just fail to stop irresponsible owners, it will negatively effect the responsible ones too.

I have thought it through lurked. My conclusion is that dogs should be on leads at all times in public places. If that doesn't suit some people they can either not have a dog or arrange for a private space for a dog to be off lead and run around. Or perhaps dog owners would campaign for special dog spaces where dogs are free to run, shit and jump on people to their, and their owners, satisfaction.

There are already laws about dogs being on leads on footpaths on roadsides, and lots of local bylaws about number of dogs a walker can have with them at any one time, the problem is it seems no one has the job of enforcing those rules.
Dogs also need space to run off lead, and agai rules exist about them being under control, but again, no one has the job of enforcing this, or not to an effective degree. I train my dogs, they are usually well behaved and compliant, but they do have heir own minds so don't always do as asked exactly when asked, so I avoid walking near lots of kids / families / picnics so as not to upset those people; my dog is friendly and as said, generally well behaved, but like kids it's not guaranteed all the time! Mine also needs to run off lead as she's training to be a search and rescue dog, so needs to work off lead, and we train in public spaces so she'll be off lead around others in that space, but I feel it's more important we fulfil that role than keep her on the lead all the time to keep a vocal dog hating minority happy!

Betty, do you never let your dogs off leash in open spaces? While I always keep mine leashed near or on roads, they are off-leash where it is sensible for them to be so.

I do sometimes feel MN is a parallel universe, where people seriously believe stuff like I am amazed that you don't seem to recognise that the vast majority of people who don't own dogs would prefer dogs to be kept on leads at all times in public places. I my experience, the vast majority of people who don't have dogs are quite happy to interact with the dogs they encounter - there are a lot of people who would have a dog if their circumstances allowed it, or who like dogs but not the responsibility that goes with dog ownership, or who don't feel confident enough to take on the commitment, or who once had a dog but can't bring themselves to get another, etc etc etc. Then there are all the people who regard dogs the same way I regard, say, ferrets: I don't want one, but I'm more than happy to see one.

adara what makes you think people who do not want unsolicited attention from other people's dogs are in the minority? I know MN isnt a scientific representation of the population, but there is plenty of support on this thread for dogs being kept on leads at all times when in public places.

You haven't thought it through though stripey or you'd have figured out it wouldn't make a jot of difference to irresponsible owners.
So even if I agreed with you, which I don't, it's not a logical solution.

mehs I can just imagine the reaction on here if someone started a

"AIBU to think that people shouldn't let their ferrets run up to my 2yo when we are in the park" thread!

I had a great dane run up and lick my dd's (16m old) face whilst we were walking in the park on the footpath and i was pushing her in her pram. She is terrified of dogs (and weirdly rabbits, fine with cats tho )

The owner was quite a bit away around a corner and when eventually caught up, unperturbed said "oh he likes kids he's really friendly"

My response of "I appreciate that but my dd is terrified of dogs and yours has just licked her face"

Her response "well there's no reason for that attitude"

If properly enforced it would make a lot of difference lurked

Read some but not all the thread but just to observe dog threads on mumsnet always make me feel we live in a parallel world. We have a family dog, I'm not dog mad and dislike yappy or scary dogs. However, where we live lots of people we know have dogs - the local common is full of dogs, people out walking and on bikes all getting out enjoying the open air. Majority of dogs off leads. Yes I'm sure people who really don't like dogs wouldn't go there. Our dog is a very friendly family pet - but as others say I don't assume everyone likes my dog so if we have visitors that aren't keen he's kept out of the way, on the street, in a park with lots of children etc he's always on a lead. However he loves a run around the woods and there's no way I think the answer is 'dogs on leads or not at all'. I think that's just as selfish a view as those dog owners who are irresponsible. We all have different likes and dislikes and need to tolerate different preferences and behave considerately and responsibly. It's the same kind of argument as other shared usage - eg bikes and people on canal towpaths and bikes and cars on roads. I haven't come across the view - majority of people without dogs think they should always be muzzled and on a lead. More like some people who don't like dogs.......

MehsMum yes I do, there is a safe space (dog friendly) where I walk and he is free to run off lead there but I'd not let him off if kids were playing in the field. Its just being considerate. I do usually go out quite early though so there is never an issue of other people being there.

I think the bit they don't realise is that yes, you might now your dog but you really don't know other people or how they would react.

I once bumped (not actually bumped but you get the idea) into a woman who screamed upon seeing my dog. Thankfully mine is used to it (kids! ;) but any other dog could easily respond in a hostile way to that kind of reaction!

I am very concious of that. Its not just your dogs behaviour you have to second guess but every other person who uses the roads/parks/woodland like you do.

YANBU. My DD (10years) is left scared of dogs for life.She actually asked me can we go to dr to help her with her fear.
On three different occasions she was jumped up by dogs and I could not prevent.Twice dogs jumped on her back (she was two and three) and on both occasions we were running and kicking the ball -she was 3yrs and both dogs jumped on her that she fell.
I didn't receive even sorry from neither of the owners.
On third ocassion she was eating on the bench in the playground and dog came from nowhere and jumped on her sniffing her.I tried to remove him,impossible until I actually started screaming for help and started pulling him with all my strenght.Owner came slowly walking and telling me he is good dog.
Because of their shitty behaviour (owner) my DD stayed scared so much that if the dog is coming towards us we have to move or she gets panic attack.
I don't know how to help her-I tried with my friends golden retriever but she can't breath near dogs.It's really soul destroying because my older DD loves dogs sooooooo much because of her positive experience,
Sorry for lenght post but better prevent than heal.