If you pay minimal maintenance, you clothe the kids when you have them?

[Sophieelmer]

That isn't too much to ask is it? It can't be reasonable to anyone, to have their DC one night a week and half holidays. Pay £10 a week maintenance and expect the RP to provide clothes for a trip to the seaside or a wedding etc?

Would I be unreasonable if I said fuck off (ever so politely) to the next request?

well if its perceived as bitter to state facts then fair enough.

I don't really consider a home to be somewhere you stay over at once per week. A home is somewhere that you 'live', your address etc.

you may perceive me as bitter, I'll allow it.
just so long as it makes you feel as if your expectations of and resultant behaviours towards your children's father are wholly healthy and usual.

My (now Ex) H used to give his first wife a fair amount, their DD would always come to ours in old outgrown clothes.

He then changed the amount he paid, to reflect the fact that we had to buy her clothes, every fucking week. Poor kid always wanted to take the cleaned and ironed clothes home with her, so we always let her, they would never reappear.

Then the CSA came out and all the horror stories about poor blokes having to pay most of their money to their exes, so she chanced it.They reduced the payments! She had done it to try to stop us being able to afford to have a baby. She failed.

Oh, and when their DD gradually increased her stays from two nights, to three, then four nights, then moved in with us and did not visit her mum, she never paid him a penny. Mainly because he would not ask for fear of her actually fighting to get her to go back for the sake of the money!

BUT in your situation OP, YANBU! it was good to vent a little about the past

lemonade

I have not said your view point is wrong nor have I said you should agree with me. Both of our view points are valid ones.

I just so happen to believe that equality where it is the childs best interests is a good thing and that it is what the children have a right to. The line in the relivant legislation is words to the effect of "children have a right to enjoy an equal relationship with both parents when safe to do so"

I just so happen to translate that as in an ideal world equal relationship means equal responsibility for care needs and provisions whilst the child is in each parents care. And I think that sometimes the best way to support the other parents relationship is by not hand feeding them so they put on their grown up pants and do what needs to be done, and that whilst mary poppins level parenting is possibly something to aspire towards that we do not have a right to impose our ideas of what makes great parenting on the other parent as outside of actual welfare issues inc emotional abuse and neglect, it's just different parenting styles and each parent should accept the others styles and not interfere.

I also tend to think that one parent not taking responsibility for the practical aspect of parenting during contact and just doing the fun stuff is all a bit Disney

Oddly I'm not a fierce advocate for 50/50 time split but I'm perhaps a bit anti that because in my personal experance ive seen many very bad examples and in those situations it appeared to be mostly about the parents rights rather than what was best for the kids but then I don't think that time spent with a child is an indicator of parenting quality. Rather embarrassingly ive changed my stance on the latter part of that (I once posted a very ranty thread years ago about my ex not being an equal parent due to only spending 12 days a year with his child).

It's all horses for courses really and we all get to decide what approach works for our own families.

In my family there is a guy who gets EOW with his kids. He doesn't ask for more because 'ex is a bitch and I'll never get it' - which means 'I can't be arsed'. He genuinely would bring his dcs to a wedding in joggers and crocs with their hair all over the place. The response would not be 'what a shit dad'. The response would be (from his mum, brothers and sisters mainly!) 'Oh, isn't Ex-Wife awful! Sending them with no clothes! Oh you know he can't afford much, and how is he meant to know what to buy?! That's Mum's job! Oh isn't she an awful bitch! Poor kids with a mother like that. They'd be better off with us!'

If she DID send them with dresses, shoes and hair bows it would be 'Well, she's a right controlling one! And look these are only from Asda! I saw some lovely ones in John Lewis last week I'm glad I didn't buy them, she'd probably moan that they were wrong or not what she likes! Poor kids, such a controlling psycho Mummy they have!'

Dad stands there with kicked puppy expression, people buy him pints for his sad, sad life being kept away from his kids. Grandma goes on about 'getting a solicitor'. I stand there silently raging. The oldest is 8 and they've been separated for 6 years. I think if they wanted to do something, they would've done it by now.

Disclaimer - my brother has a genuine 50-50 share With his ex, their dd is happy and provided for by both. It can work.

We used to provide everything DSD needs when she comes but it got to the point she'd come in school uniform go home in our clothes and we never got them back and I was buying a new outfit every week!

So now we ask DSD mum to send her with clothes to go home in and we provide for the other time here

My exh has ds1 ( ds2 doesn't go any more of his own choice) 3 nights a week so maintenance was calculated based on that but he doesn't provide him with anything for his house apart from feeding him. I buy all clothing, school things, sports membership and lessons. He also is ignoring requests for him to increase maintenance slightly to take in to account ds2 hasn't stayed for nearly a year.

I think he justifies it by saying he pays maintenance and I get tax credits.

The problem with this thread is it is about everyone's circumstances...Obviously in an ideal world.. both parents would work together to provide for their child. Sometimes this happens..But would you send clothes one way or the other if you got nothing back..

As for a special occasion.. no I wouldn't provide them

Dsd is 12. We've had her here three times this year despite the fact that contact should be eow Friday to Monday. His ex moved last year and despite us being on benefits, ex insists dp does the collecting and returning. We don't have the money to do this frequently and have instead attempted to have her during holidays so we could have her a week at a time, making the trip more economic. Every request has been refused. When we had dsd in January ex refused to send clothes so we had to go and get her things as all the stuff we had here for her she had outgrown. We just had her for four days and the stuff we got in January (which has been worn three times) no longer fits.

I refuse to buy more' We can barely clothe the two children living here, my youngest needs school uniform and shoes and as his ex is getting a five figure sum in the divorce and still expecting him to pay maintenance (which comes out of my benefits) and pay to get her, she can buy the clothes on the very few occasions dp is actually allowed to see her.

As soon as she stopped contact she let the csa know to get the payments put up. Morals of a whore.

Is the childs father not working coffee?

The Csa do not take into account partners income (other than for calculating how much someone can afford to pay if in arrears and even then it's not to take money from the new partner it's to prevent hardship with arrears repayments) they can include a % of a portion of a joint WTC claim but only the portion that would be considered to be the NRPs (could be miss remembering this bit but I'm also pretty sure the NRP has to be the higher earner it's quite hard to even get the Csa to pay any attention to a WTC joint claim).

There is also a deduction in liability based on NRP's households resident children.

And given that the deduction in liability you get based on overnights you have the kids if you cease to have them for that many nights then you are not entitled to the deduction for it.

You can apply for a variation to get a portion of the travel costs for contact taken into consideration and CM lowered the RP cannot get her CM increased if they do all the travel.

The % the Csa and CMS ask people to pay are generally considered to be reasonable and fair by most decent folk and it would be quite unusual for someone not to be reasonably unable to afford to pay a correctly assesed amount obviously it's a bit different when arrears come into it but as I said earlier they do have hardship resolution for those and they can be repayed with as little as £1 PW.

Using the CSA correctly does not mean someone has the morals of a whore (what ever that may mean)

I would like to know how the child maintainacne is coming out of your benefits coffee.

The csa told me that my dcs are entitled to nothing as their father packed his job in ( he was the main income earner) to aboid paying maintenance. His partner is a professional and the csA take nothing from their household income.

My dp was in a road accident 18 months ago. I'm on esa and as we live together it's deducted from my claim. Yes I've queried it but seemingly they can do it. I'm now paying out more for his child than I get for my own. It's all a bit crap.

But got a letter this morning saying it's stopping this week as moving onto the new system. He got a letter from them saying he's got an income of £5k a year and needs to pay £10 a week. He doesn't get any money except a war disability pension which can't be touched and that's only £40 a week.

A war disability pension is considered a benefit so he should get the benefit deduction. Any other income has to be done under variation.

And no they do not touch your benefits they can touch a joint claim but only if he has funds allocated in it and only the bit that is his. Unless your SC is something like rising 20 and by some weird reason still on the very first rules

Here you go

www.gov.uk/how-child-maintenance-is-worked-out/rates-used-by-the-child-support-agency

so he does get an income.
My ex was claiming something (j.s.a?) but decided to stop presumably to spite me so his children get nothing at all whilst his dp claims off all the fathers of her children.

Hmm my ex moans to everyone who will listen that it's so not fair that nobody likes him or his partner whilst they both wilfully see my children go without.

I'm not happy that I am the only parent to support my children and think it is a bad example for any parent to set.

Wth regard to the original question the parent who is with the children should ensure they are fed and clothed and wash those clothes too.

There are so many shit nrp parents about. I'll state again if the majority of rp behaved like the nrp do they would be in prison for bloody child neglect.

Morals of a whore (agree - whatever that means) for claiming what her child is legally entitled to? I've heard it all now. If he's on benefits, and they ARE his no matter how you want to paint it, then he'd have been paying a big fat zero with eow contact. If contact has been reduced then he'll have been asked to pay a whole £5 per week. And if they are taking it from his benefits then that's the equivalent of an attachment of earnings - so he was refusing to pay even that, but she gets called names?

It comes out of my benefits. Mine.

She's taken everything. The endowment, the isa, all their savings and got 75% of the house. She moved in with her boyfriend and now has over £100k for nice stuff and to spend on her child while we are being made homeless, can barely cover food bills, have to pay maintenance and cover fuel costs for seeing his dd. She didn't even discuss maintenance, just went straight to cms who have said it shouldn't be coming out of my money and csa were wrong to take his war disability pension into account. He's set up a standing order to pay but it's only because cms have listened to him. His ex won't talk to him, she just wants money. She's literally bled him dry.

Don't get me started on this!!

My ex has an obsession with DS's clothes. He often accuses me of sending DS in dirty clothes even though his clothes are always freshly washed and tumble dried. One time, he had a pair of jeans that were slightly too short and I hadn't noticed. That was all he could go on about. Saying what a terrible parent I am for letting him go out in clothes that were too small.

Nowadays, he doesn't buy him any clothes and hasn't paid maintenance for 3 years. When he was about 7, he went thought a period of buying him clothes that had to stay at his dad's house. My ex would actually make him change before I could take him home. Strangely enough I didn't let him stay there very often.

morals of a whore

Well theres some phenomenal misogyny right there.

From a woman. On a website for women.

In that case it's probably easier my children's father does not ever have them over night and I had to pay him on the divorce and he pays nothing now. Keeps it simple. For the 2 hours he sees some of them they just wear the clothes they are in. As coffee says in many divorces one of the couple gets to much - in my case the man got so much (because I earn more) so if you are landed with paying for everything, working full time and have the children 365 nights a year even though you'd quite like them half the year that's a pretty unfair balance too and all caused by the inability of the law to allow a parent or child to force the other parent to have the children half the time or even one night a year. We allow take it or leave it parenting in England which sends out an awful message to men.

These men should be being sent 3 black sacks of children's washing so they can do half the washing of the children each week to be delivered freshly laundered when they return the children never mind making demands about clothes. Even if they don't work they can scrub clothes and mend holes in socks and the like.

It comes out of my benefits. Mine

Then you have good grounds to obtain it all back. And I suggest you apply to have them sort it out. Because your income is nothing to do with anything.

She didn't even discuss maintenance, just went straight to cms who have said it shouldn't be coming out of my money and csa were wrong to take his war disability pension into account. He's set up a standing order to pay but it's only because cms have listened to him. His ex won't talk to him, she just wants money. She's literally bled him dry

She is under no obligation to discuss it with either you or him, yes it's desirable but no she is not obliged to. If she's willing to pay the assesment fee and collection fees then that's all she needs to do.

They are not wrong to take the war pension into account,for the purposes of CM (and many other things) it is treated just the same as JSA and subject to the minimum benefits CM payment,this is what they do with it. The link I posted earlier confirms this is the case. So no nobody has told you that is was wrong for the Csa to do that.

If he has debt as a result of the relationship and has not retained the asset then he can apply for a variation as can he for contact related travel costs.

He is doing nothing other than paying the legally required amount towards maintaining his child/ren,life may be far less stressful if you stop being quite so hate filled about his obligations towards the children he had before you. Do not date or get In to relationships with people with kids if you are going to be so resentful about the legal obligations they have towards these children,that's just common sense.

I'd like to see my ex trying to mend a hole in a sock

Actually I can't mend socks myself so I shouldn't be so smug. The problem, Red, is that you can't force someone to be a good dad or to want to see his kids, and it's hardly in the child's best interests to try to force it.

I'm happy my ex has minimal contact. Makes things a lot easier for me.

I’m not a NRP as they live with me half the time but I recently took both my DC’s to a wedding and I bought them their wedding outfits(actually my mum did) and they are going to another wedding next week and my ex has asked can she borrow the smart shoes I bought and I have no objection. If they come to my house wearing something then it will be washed, ironed and eventually make it’s way back to them even if it’s just that they are wearing it when they leave here.

As for maintenance. I pay £200 a month despite the 50:50 child care and this covers half of the £100 a month each we pay into their bank accounts and any clubs, sports or school trips they go on. I coughed up an additional £200 last month for a residential school trip. My only rule is that she has to ask me before she agrees to something because I don’t get paid as much as she does.

She recently funded a skiing trip and a trip to France without me unasked because she knew I probably couldn’t have afforded it but I got a little bit annoyed because I could have afforded spending money or a proportion of the cost.

My kids will always get what I can afford and their clothes belong to them not to me and if they choose to keep them at mum’s house that’s their decision. My one little issue with clothes was that DD pestered me into buying her some Van’s trainers and the next time she turned up she was wearing plimsolls with a hole in the bottom of them. Not my ex’s fault, it was DD’s fault, she lives in the bloody things.

She recently funded a skiing trip and a trip to France without me unasked because she knew I probably couldn’t have afforded it but I got a little bit annoyed because I could have afforded spending money or a proportion of the cost

Sounds like you have a really good arangement that works, but don't let her trying to be kind annoy you,if they haven't already been on the trip there is nothing stopping you going outside of the agreement and giving the kids spending money to take and if they have then just let her know you are happy for her to make 100% self funded trip arangement but would she be able to inform you so you can offer spending money if you are able to.

Totally with you on the Vans I've lost count of how many pairs my kids have been through they never last

Needasockamnesty

You are of course attributing the best of intentions to my ex. I try and do that but sometimes it bites me in the bum. I suspect(know) that my not paying will be thrown back in my face at some point. The situation works well because I don’t retaliate when she loses her temper. Offering extra child care to cover her shift pattern is particularly annoying apparently. She did apologise for that one.