Going out for a meal whilst on sick leave?

[Kayden]

I was invited out for lunch this week with a relative who I rarely see. She knows I've been unwell and will be picking me up, so I don't need to drive. It's nothing fancy but it is in a nice restaurant and I'll probably be out of the house for a few hours.

I mentioned it to a friend who was shocked that I am going, said it's "naughty". I am now doubting myself and feeling guilty. WIBU to go out for this meal whilst on sick leave?

It's annoying when people think you have to be under quarantine when you're ill. When I was suffering really badly with my bi-polar (depressive stage) people begrudged me having a nice day out :(

A lad who I used to work with got sacked though. Had the day off because of D&V but then rocked up to the staff xmas do at the night...

A sick note means you have an illness that stops you doing your job. That doesn't mean you are confined to the house and many illnesses require rehabilitation so walking going out eating out etc are fine.
It depends on the job and the illness but if you genuinely still can't do your job then there isn't a problem with doing stuff you can do.

Hayden ,if you're not feeling confident about it. Ask your HR dept.

Some people are just bitchy. Like at my work a few of the staff were having a whinge about one of the women who's off sick. 'can't BELIEVE she's on Facebook, she's supposed to be ill!!!'. In the end I just made a joke about her illness not effecting her fingers thumbs so they all shut up.

Would I balls ask HR. It's nothing to do with them.

I think it sounds completely reasonable. We had a lot of members of staff off with stress this year in our department, including myself, all genuine (ie none of us were playing the system, it was a hellish bloody year and a lot of us buckled for various reasons). I made an effort to go out for walks and meet friends for lunch, and still maintain that it was the right thing to do. Likewise, two colleagues who were signed off with stress came for a colleague's leaving dinner. As we were all very understanding, no-one batted an eyelid and we were glad to see them out. I know someone who had depression and went away to Scotland for a week to stay in a little cabin by the sea and it did her the world of good.

So yes, it's completely acceptable and enjoy your lunch out, bet it will perk you up!

I suspect there must have been more to that, and she'd ruin them in an unfair dismissal case.

If I'm not well enough to go to work then I'm not well enough to to go out.
Nonsense, context is everything in this situation.

Enjoy your lunch OP, I'm off sick and am just about to out for lunch myself. I'll still have a broken leg afterwards.

I’m quite horrified at tales of people being sacked for going to a restaurant while off sick with MH problems.

At one point I was off sick for four months due to bipolar disorder. During that time there were months where I wasn’t fit to go back to work – I was doped up the eyeballs, I got confused at times, I said weird things, I’d randomly decide I needed to run somewhere, I had panic attacks, I got agitated and angry – but I was encouraged to do very small social things, and as I slowly got better, I was encouraged to go out more. I went to a theme park, for example, at one point and while I did need my partner there as my carer, and did get a bit jittery about things I was seeing/hearing at one point, I had a great time and it helped a lot in terms of getting me used to the idea of public spaces again. I guess I could have gone back into work earlier, but would most offices really have wanted me double checking if the poster was actually talking to me or not?

I think there’s a massive lack of understanding about the complexity of medical conditions and if someone was sacked for just going to a restaurant, I really hope they sued their employer for all they were worth.

I manage a small office, and one of my staff was recently off with low mood which seemed to me to be threatening to turn into depression. I thought it was fine to encourage this member of staff to be social while on sick leave, including taking a trip to see relations.

In such circumstances, and if there is trust between the employer and employee, then encouraging a social life can help the person to recover more quickly and thoroughly. Shutting yourself away won't help at all, quite the opposite in fact.

So in short, you're not being unreasonable.

I don't see how people are expected to get well enough to go back to work without working up towards it.

A meal where you're being collecte and returned, and a nice social time sounds just what you need to assess how your doing etc.

I was off sick a couple of years ago with depression. My depression was linked to the lack of support my child was getting as he has an ASC. During the 2 weeks I was signed off my DH and I took part in a rally.
It was exactly what I needed as it was time out from the stress of managing my son and my job and our life.
My GP was 100% behind me doing it and said it was just what I needed.

If you worked at my office I probably wouldn't have a problem with it, maybe if you called in sick when we are all very busy and go out for lunch the next day you would be out of order.

As an employment lawyer I'd eat my hat if the teacher spotted in a restaurant whilst off sick with stress was sacked because of being in the restaurant. That sounds like chinese whispers and is extremely unlikely.

Far more likely (and potentially fair) would be a dismissal because the teacher's prospects of a return to work in the near future were slim (fair dismissal for capability on the basis that the employee can't fulfil their contractual obligations) or on the basis that the medical evidence/notes didn't add up/support the absence (potentially fair reason for misconduct). Both of these would enable an employer to defend an unfair dismissal claim.

OP you are perfectly fine to go out for lunch. Clearly if you're spotted jogging around the park that might be a different matter

An old boss of mine used to positively encourage colleagues who had been off with something serious / long term to get out and about. His view was that he would far rather people did what they needed to recover and also that he would prefer they felt their last day / few days off was skiving (depending on the time spent signed off) than come back too early only to be signed off again. I actually thought this was a really good attitude and I think his reasonableness actually meant people were less likely to take the piss.

OP - go out, enjoy. There is a world of difference as others have already said, between 'fine for an hour or two where I'm being ferried' and 'fine to put in a full day's work, 5 days a week'.

As others have said, it depends on the reason, and also length of absence.

If you're off for a day or two with flu or similar, and have claimed you're too ill to get out of bed or such, being seen out for lunch probably wouldn't go down too well...or like the person I know of, who despite being signed off with agoraphobia was regularly seen out at local restaurants and took several foreign holidays, all of which were well documented on social media...

Personally I wouldn't do it but only as I would be worried about being seen. I have had colleauges recently who have been off on long term sick leave with stress / depression and then post things on facebook where they are on a night out and staying in a hotel with a hen party. I could never post that but I guess perhaps a mini break is part of their recovery. Personally i would just be too conscious of what people would think. Realisticaly you can't be expected to stay in all the time if you are off for an extended period.

YANBU and I hope you're having fun.

It's sad that you have to worry about this but, in some ways, I do understand the kind of reactions some people have because it's something I have to really struggle against myself.

I think it depends very much on an individual's work place and on the health of the other colleagues.

As someone who teaches in a school where we have to cover colleagues' absences ourselves and as someone who has mental health issues (anorexia, a mild form of bipolar and OCD) that have never been deemed severe enough for a day off work I find it really, really hard not to be bitchy and unsympathetic when people are off. Sometimes I feel like I am just about coping with what I have to do and then I have to cover someone else's work too and everything becomes too much.

But none of that is someone else's fault and I know that my feelings are entirely my issue. I would never ever voice them but sometimes I feel really bitter and find myself thinking things like 'stressed? Reeeeallly? Who isn't!'

So YA def NBU but I do kind of understand the criticisms you are afraid of too.

I manage a small office, and one of my staff was recently off with low mood which seemed to me to be threatening to turn into depression. I thought it was fine to encourage this member of staff to be social while on sick leave, including taking a trip to see relations

This, for example, I would struggle massively with. I find it incredible that people can be off for something so minor. A 'low mood'?!?! Wow. If I could just take a trip to see my family whenever I felt my mood slipping or struggles starting ... well, that would be like some kind of dream world. And if someone in my place of work did that and left me with their work while I was struggling to deal with my own I would really struggle to keep my mouth shut.

Part of having depression is being able to identify when you feel yourself slipping. When you do feel that 'slip' it really helps to take some time away, rest and try to get your head straight. Instead of allowing it to continue and ended up being ravaged by depression.

If I would have been able to have time off work when I felt my 'mood' worsening and becoming very low, then I sincerely believe my descent into a major depressive mood would have been prevented and I wouldn't have been hospitalised.

In fact there's been quite a bit of talk about 'Mental health days'.

You're not alone in your opinion manic, it's a symptom of people still not seeing mental illness on the same level as physical.

Yeah, I can totally understand that Grays but the key for me in your post was the word if - ie you couldn't. Because, in the real world, we just can't have time off for early symptoms of an illness which may or may not develop into anything.

I'm not so sure there is much distinction between mental and physical actually - you couldn't take time off for the early symptoms of a cold either. Yet, if you could, you might well be able prevent a really nasty cold or chest infection from developing and necessitating a longer time off.

It would be nice if you could but, in reality, we generally can't and it's maybe kind of normal to feel jealous when people do, especially if it creates more work for you or if you aren't that well yourself. Mental or physical stuff.

I think it's more comparable to a bad back. If you feel tell-tale twinges in your back, after having a bad back in the past, you'd be entitled to a day off to try and seek preventative treatment or to 'rest up'. To prevent weeks, months of sickness.

A bad back, and indeed depression, doesn't go away after a few days like a cold.

I do completely understand your point though manic and you make good points, but I am glad that some employers are allowing mental health days and the like.

It would be really good if we had some data to see the benefits of such days

Yes, you're right, the bad back is a better comparison.

Also agree that data would be good - it would help take the emotion and irrationality out of the situation.