Use of the words abusive and controlling on MN

[SrAssumpta]

Recently there seems to be a surge in the dramatically unnecessary use of words like abusive and controlling on here and I really think I've become desensitized to it so I would imagine that's how real victims of abuse or people with genuinely controlling partners would feel too if they came on talking about their relationship, does that make sense?

A woman got told the other day she sounded controlling for making a meal plan ffs, I mean seriously? These words get thrown around now it's going to either lead to everyone thinking they're in abusive relationships or in fact controlling and the people who genuinely need to understand that their relationship isn't normal won't be able to see it because suddenly everybody is abusive or controlling.

lweji I am not talking about those situations either. But in those situations leaving is not always the first option.

I am talking about the situations like the ones mentioned on this thread. There have been examples given. Man taking cake home after a short date, woman asking her dh to warm up some cheese, man who wants to change what gym he goes to.....there have been many examples of people being labelled as controlling and abusive when it's a million miles away from abuse or control.

Another one was a few years ago a woman got a promotion and wanted to celebrate with a take away, her husband didn't as they were both trying to eat better and get healthy. He didn't say she couldn't have one, but that he didn't want one. He was labelled controlling because he didn't want to eat an unhealthy meal.

I can't find the thread either via Google or the search on here (nothing coming up for Riedel) so I assume it's gone past the date when it's deleted.

But it was you wasn't it Lweji? You kept insisting it was domestic abuse and demanding the OP phoned the police even though she clearly didn't agree. He might not have apologised straight away, and there certainly wasn't a consensus she should class it as abuse and call the police. That was just one or two people.

And Lweji, I think that you are one of the posters who is most guilty of this sort of behaviour.

She's entitled to give her view and her perspective on it, even if you don't agree.

Lewji with all due respect...it's not court I don't need to present exhibits. If you don't want to believe me that's fine. I am talking about my experiences on mn. I am not trawling thorough posts to satisfy you.

It's clear we don't agree, but we don't have to to have a discussion

Oh, that brings up another category of "abusers": kids who are upset about mum's new boyfriend.

People say things like "like father, like son" and label children abusive for all manner of things.

lewji I think his behaviour was disgusting. But to call the police and have teenager labelled as abusive was an over reaction.

I and the OP agrees with that. The OP was clear, she felt it was a stupid thing he had done trying to make a point and wasn't calling the police and yet people carried on.

It's not court, but if you are going to make accusations they better be supported. You can't just accuse people of x and y with lies. And you'll be challenged.
Saying it's not court is just an avoidance argument. You used a thread to demonstrate a point and it was way off mark.
I don't remember people demanding that op called the police, although there may be one or two (so?). Would you care to show it?

I agree about the pack mentality.
I posted for advice once because I was feeling insecure about my relationship for what I felt were quite clear reasons.

A poster who was pretty well known back then decided that my DP must be having an affair; and the thread turned into several pages of me basically defending my DP and being called naive and stupid and told to LTB by her and a load of hangers on, they were 100% convinced he was having an affair.

I was feeling raw because he was being pretty insensitive at the time (but not a basted, he's a decent, lovely man but infruriatingly rubbish at emotional stuff) and the last thing I really needed was to have to spend several pages defending him.

With the benefit of a few years hindsight, no he was not having an affair.

I was very familiar with mumsnet at that point, and also I'm.not so easily swayed. But what if I had been new here, or if i'd taken their advice?

It could have wrecked my relationship. DS could have seen his parents split and i DD wouldn't exist. People need to be much more mindful of the effect their words could have IMO.

And if you are going to use a thread as an example, then link or remember it correctly.

Wow. Seriously? I don't see many links in your posts. I asked up thread whether people really advise women to stay with abusive partners, and your reply was 'Yes'. Just that. No evidence, no examples even! And then you post the comment I quote above, as though only your memory of the thread could possibly be correct! That's some display of arrogance. Who exactly do you think you are? Several posters remember it differently... Who is to say who's "remembering correctly" when no-one can find the thread in question?

The amateur sleuths and pack mentality are all over mumsnet though, not just relationships, and always has been in the 7 years i've been here.

Certain people decide they know the "real" story based very limited information and don't consider or perhaps care about the implications if they are wrong. The worst examples are where the pack are outstandingly rude and pick apart a posters story because they're 100% convinced they're a troll, but that if you do take the story at face value the poster is very vulnerable indeed.

I know full well that trolling is prolific here but if all people are going on is a hunch and are happy to openly attack people presenting with stories that make them very vulnerable, then even if their troll radar is great, they're bound to get it wrong eventully and be a bunch of people heaping scorn and derision on someone in terrible circumstances. That's despicable IMO.

lewji I not making accusations I am talking about my experiences.

Can you prove that MN has helped any woman leave a relationship because she has seen a man who buys cake after date, or a wan who makes a meal plan, abusive?

As you said you aren't sure whether someone said call the police. So you aren't sure.

If you want to think I am lying.....that's up to you. I am not convinced by any of your points either. I would go so far to call them lies, as I think that's uncalled for and unfounded.

And if you are going to use a thread as an example, then link or remember it correctly.

For me, this is mumsnet at it's worst. Surely it's fine to make a recollection without trawling through threads and providing 'evidence', when we are all adults just having a discussion? If someone accused me of saying something I didn't I might ask where they got that information from, but other than that, it's fine. IMO.

I constantly see posters misinterpret what the OP posts, whether it's deliberate or not I don't know but they invent some half baked story based on the OP saying one or two things. Or they say that the OP posted something in particular when they didn't. It pisses me off and it makes the posters look like idiots with an agenda or projection issues.

I remember the thread where the wannabe Russell Brand threw a strop and people were trying to label him as abusive

Yes, Wilbur and Wayne. That does happen a lot. Often when the threads are found and linked to (if they haven't disappeared in Chat) they don't say what people have presented. Maybe some people have simply misremembered but others may be so worked up at the time that they just read things in a way they aren't actually written or intended. I suppose that's the difficulty with words on a screen rather than being in person. People can read things in a 'tone.'

Sometimes stories don't add up because people change details to protect their anonymity.
But then the story is picked on and it spirals out of control.

I'm always amazed at just how little it takes for some posters to ask OP to call the police or Women's Aid.
Relationships have their ups and downs but not on here.
For some posters their own relationships are always perfect and the benchmark for everybody else's.

Strange but true

The OP in the cake-abuse thread has just posted again resurrecting the thread after no-one posting on the thread for 6 days

Her/his ears must have been burning!

YANBU. Most people in a long term relationship will, on occasion, have been selfish/rude/unreasonable/lazy, because we are all human. It is only if this becomes a regular pattern of behaviour that it is truly 'abuse'. Likewise, being a true 'narcissist' goes well beyond being selfish and self-centred.

Bangs head on desk. Repeats the bleedin' obvious. One, yes one poster on the cake thread said it was abuse. Everyone else said that poster was bloody bonkers for saying it was abuse. And yet that thread keeps getting held up as a prime example of the readiness of people on mumsnet to shout abuse/LTB.

Can I just hand out grips to everyone on this thread (with the honourable exceptions of Lweji and Mrs Devere)? I personally think that it's bloody brilliant in the face of an overwhelming culture of "well marriage is sacred, you should give it another try, perhaps he was just a bit stressed at work" to have one space where women are allowed to say "you know what, he's behaving like a bit of a shit and you don't have to put up with that."

Cocklodger was another buzzword a couple of years ago and I remember thinking if I had written about my relationship at 23 especially if I'd been feeling ranty, DP would most definitely have been called a cocklodger. In reality he was a wonderful SAHD and it just made sense for me to work as his trade and gone bust and I had better earning potential at the time. Now he works really hard in a new industry and his earnings mean I can work part time at the moment.

That's not to take away from all the genuine cases of cocklodgery but it's easy and I suppose understandable to make assumptions based on a snapshot of someone's life that they've written in a particular frame of mind.

The cake thread is recent and quite memorable, and so bizarre it sticks on one's mind.

There was the phone charger one as well, OP finds rogue phone charger and a phone that's not been used in years, gets told to LTB.

And many more.

luc how is saying the words abuse and control are being over used, the same as telling people they should stay with someone who treats them like shit?

The fact that some mner jumps in 'he is an abuser' proves the point. The OP (or any of us) havent said the majority of mn over use it, or the it's goes unchallenged. But that it's overused.

Bang your head all you like, if that's how you deal with people who don't agree with you....crack on.

I'd give a gold clock not to hear posters say s/he makes me feel angry/sad/cry, etc.

No-one makes anyone feel anything, to say so just muddies the waters, leaving the solution less attainable.

"Sociopath" is another word used at the drop of a hat on here, and was also thrown at the cake-buying man, by the OP

Oh, and I agree with Lurcio's last paragraph.