Use of the words abusive and controlling on MN

[SrAssumpta]

Recently there seems to be a surge in the dramatically unnecessary use of words like abusive and controlling on here and I really think I've become desensitized to it so I would imagine that's how real victims of abuse or people with genuinely controlling partners would feel too if they came on talking about their relationship, does that make sense?

A woman got told the other day she sounded controlling for making a meal plan ffs, I mean seriously? These words get thrown around now it's going to either lead to everyone thinking they're in abusive relationships or in fact controlling and the people who genuinely need to understand that their relationship isn't normal won't be able to see it because suddenly everybody is abusive or controlling.

Is that all you got from my post?

There are of course unreasonable people on both sides. And I'm sure controlling and abusive are bandied about unnecessarily sometimes. As is the you just need to talk to him (when the OP has spent years doing that).

Can't argue with that bit.

But there certainly isn't either a mums know best or LTB "brigade".

There certainly is.

It is sad when leaving is the only option and it's sad when women have to do it all, regardless of what they prefer, because otherwise their children might go without food or without clean clothes or live in a tip.

This is true. But you use an extreme case where a child's welfare is at stake to prove your point. As if anybody is going to recommend not taking action in such a severe example. The original thread isn't about that is it?

I find these threads sad. Particularly when they attract WUMs that call trolls posters who have been through abuse, recognise it and do their best to help other women free themselves from abuse.

Lots of different threads make lots of different people feel sad. I will accept that I have no less or more right to label someone a troll as you have to label someone a wind up. You can call it what you like and vice versa. You are entitled to an opinion just as anyone else is entitled to disagree.

I'm so glad I've seen this thread.

Sometimes I think I'm the only one thinking, as Mrs deVere said, "give it time, you both need to get used to each other/the new baby/relocation/whatever, be kind to each other" but not saying it because I've had certain posters jump down my throat for suggesting that actually it takes two to make (or break) a relationship.

I like it when mrsdevere posts. I always feel like I'm in safe hands somehow :)

I will accept that I have no less or more right to label someone a troll as you have to label someone a wind up.

I have every right to call someone a wum for calling people who are doing their best as trolls. In fact, it should have been reported. Way out of line.

It's not extreme to talk about children going without food or clothes, as in many cases where LTB is recommended that is what would happen if the mother didn't step in.

It's not that common that people say LTB, or call abuse or control. There may be the odd one that sticks out, but not consistently, and certainly not to be called a brigade.

posters jump down my throat for suggesting that actually it takes two to make (or break) a relationship.

It definitely takes two to make a relationship, but only one to break it.

The problem is when only one is making any effort. I haven't seen threads where people have consistently said to leave if that was not the case.

I know abuse is a serious subject but some of the posts on this thread make me laugh!

As I've said, great that someone gets a laugh out of it I suppose

One recent thread contained the suggestion that a man was potentially abusive because he bought some cake at the end of a date.

This post for instance, nearly PMSL when I read that!

I just don't get why it's funny.

It's ridiculous, but people say ridiculous stuff on here all the time. I'm just not seeing why that in particular is funny, I'm prepared to accept I have a sense of humour failure but I find loads of stuff on MN funny but not that?

Yanbu OP. I'm glad I'm not the only one to think that certain words/terms are overused on MN.

One poster saying that on that thread hardly shows that it's a common feature of MN.

Coming into this late, but I think there's sometimes a tendency to pathologise what's essentially just someone being a hateful cunt. Most of us want to believe that someone couldn't just be a hateful cunt and so we seek out a label for their behaviour which explains it, i.e. 'narc', 'EA', 'sociopath'. 'Abusive/controlling' has become part of that language. It's not necessarily wrong in all cases but it's also not necessarily right.

I think the most incredulous I've been on a thread about a relationship is those occasions where it's posted in AIBU or Chat, and there's a fairly even split between LTB and not. Then someone on the LTB side, annoyed that the OP isn't yet calling divorce lawyers, suggests posting again in Relationships for a more balanced set of replies.

Balanced

Conversely, threads like this can be dangerous because they tend to put down people who use them, regardless of being adequate or not. Particularly when the blunt, aggressive pps come out. Something like pot, kettle, black.
Relationships, and even IABU and Chat can have quite a few because many times posters start with a smaller complaint that leads to a much worse picture.
But I suppose that there will always be people for whom a slap, for example, is not abuse and men who opt out of family life are just stressed. This is just as bad as abusing the words abuse and controlling.

There was a thread a little while ago about a teenage boy who had a ridiculous argument about politics with his mother. He was very passionately left wing, his mother wasn't and they had a very heated argument during which they both behaved like insufferable numpties. The boy broke his mothers decanter in a fit of pique. It was very expensive but he did not realise. He was upset and apologetic afterwards. It was just one of those stupid things teenagers do.

There were people on the thread who labeled this boy an abuser and we're all for his mother reporting him to the police. It was ridiculous, and fortunately his mother had the sense not to listen.

I mean, can you imagine? Women's Aid and the police are dealing with women who are fleeing in fear of their lives and they start getting calls from people who are upset Sebastian broke a bit of crystal because he feels so strongly about Tory cuts?

Sorry the thread grew legs I can't keep up.

It seems to have been vastly assumed that I'm talking about the Relationship board and that I'm speaking in terms of men being labelled abusive in my OP, actually the main example I gave was about a thread in AIBU and it was a woman being called controlling.

Twice on this thread I've been accused of being controlling for trying to control people's use of the word control when I merely began what I thought would be an interesting discussion, but it just goes to show how easily people misinterpret something innocent for something sinister.

So many brilliant posts though from both "sides" though.

It's not extreme to talk about children going without food or clothes, as in many cases where LTB is recommended that is what would happen if the mother didn't step in.

But in many cases 'abuse' and 'LTB' are used in cases a million miles from there, as well. That's the point!

Conversely, threads like this can be dangerous because they tend to put down people who use them, regardless of being adequate or not. Particularly when the blunt, aggressive pps come out. Something like pot, kettle, black.
Relationships, and even IABU and Chat can have quite a few because many times posters start with a smaller complaint that leads to a much worse picture.
But I suppose that there will always be people for whom a slap, for example, is not abuse and men who opt out of family life are just stressed. This is just as bad as abusing the words abuse and controlling.

No threads like this may make people think about labelling posters as abuse victims, without good cause. It's may make people think twice about having a go at posters because they aren't ready to LTB.

No one is saying a slap isn't abusive or abuse doesn't exist. But simply that not all realtionships that are not perfect are also abusive.

There is a complete difference between abuse apologists and thinking the phrasea are over used

I think the thing about the Relationships Board is that it is heavily skewed towards showing bad relationships, merely because it exists. People aren't going to post about good relationships in there, because there is no need. People do occasionally post light-hearted threads in there, but more often they go in chat, because really, that's where they belong.

So yes, the Relationships Board is likely to see heavy usage of the words abusive, controlling etc. - because quite often, those are the behaviours being shown. Equally, many of the threads on the Relationships Board are going to be from partners (mostly women but not all) who are suspicious of their partner, or who have found out that they are seeing someone else. People who have been through that experience will indeed post in a "projecting" way, because that's really all they can do - offer their own experience to show similarities (or differences).

Yes, LTB is often suggested too soon, but not always. Yes, "abusive" crops up more and more - but then more and more behaviours are being termed abuse these days! Shouting - that's abuse. Pointing aggressively = abuse. Ignoring people and sulking = abuse. Where the definition expands, so will the usage.

I have to admit that calling the OP of the camembert thread "controlling" was ridiculous, though!

As far as the non-Relationship Board threads are concerned - yes it's getting a bit much when people post in anger/distress about a single incident and get told "he's abusive, he's controlling, he's toxic, LTB" - but I haven't seen as many of those as I have seen where the OP starts with something relatively inocuous, but that's just the tip of the iceberg. They can talk about something minor/tiny, because that's "safe" - but talking about that leads to the slow revelation of more information that paints a much bigger picture of the OP's life - and then some people will pick up on that and realise that the OP's situation is actually a lot worse than at first seemed.

At this point in the thread, the OP will generally say "no it's no like that, it really was about the toothpaste lid" OR they'll start to reveal more and more "evidence" that actually, they are in a bad place.

I'm probably one of the accused "armchair psychologists" but I still think that it's important to give people information that might help them to better their situation; and I believe that it would be next to impossible to make a poster believe that their OH is an abuser when he clearly isn't.

LazyLohan
That is not what happened on the thread. The boy was not apologetic and he threw and broke an expensive item just to make a point.
Eventually he did apologise, something like the following day.
This was a misrepresentation of a thread where the mother was shocked about his behaviour, which is expected. She was advised to tread it seriously and that she could be justified in going to the police if he continued not to apologise or not offered to repay the item.
IF you want to allow your children to break expensive items at home with no consequences for them, good luck.

lweji from what I remember, some people responded as you say. Some people were a over the top with it and recommending calling the police.

I agree it was serious and the OP needed to treat it seriously. But some people did label the teenage boy as an abuser. Which again isn't helping anyone

But in many cases 'abuse' and 'LTB' are used in cases a million miles from there, as well. That's the point!
It's not a million miles. What I'm talking about is when a partner refuses to cook for the children or do any house work. He leaves it all to the wife, who does it because otherwise the children would go hungry. Except that this is considered ok, just needs a talk to. But effectively, it's not quite a relationship worth keeping. At least like this.

What people often say is to be prepared to walk out. It's a healthy perspective. Keeping in a relationship at all cost is a recipe for disaster and leaves you vulnerable to abuse. This is why I prefer a trigger happy ltb pp to those who accept shouting, stonewalling, calling names, opting out of family, and so on. People realising that they can walk out is healthy.
I wouldn't advise it if alternatives can be found, but knowing that leaving is an option is liberating.

His behaviour was abusive. He hadn't apologised and was still justifying his behaviour and was an adult. What could be said about it?

Some pps will always be a bit over the top and others will excuse anything. It seems balanced to me.

And if you are going to use a thread as an example, then link or remember it correctly.