Use of the words abusive and controlling on MN

[SrAssumpta]

Recently there seems to be a surge in the dramatically unnecessary use of words like abusive and controlling on here and I really think I've become desensitized to it so I would imagine that's how real victims of abuse or people with genuinely controlling partners would feel too if they came on talking about their relationship, does that make sense?

A woman got told the other day she sounded controlling for making a meal plan ffs, I mean seriously? These words get thrown around now it's going to either lead to everyone thinking they're in abusive relationships or in fact controlling and the people who genuinely need to understand that their relationship isn't normal won't be able to see it because suddenly everybody is abusive or controlling.

Totally agree MrsDeVere DH was an arse at times when DC1 was little, and I am sure he could say the same of me. We were 22 and 19 with a baby though, it was hard times.

The other thing that annoys me on here is the 'cool wife' accusation with that quote from Gone Girl trotted out because you don't mind if your husband goes on a stag night or watches the football or something.

It's incredibly difficult because you do read horrible tales of abuse on here and so often I've seen posters apparently oblivious to the idea that what they are experiencing is not normal.
It's also true that often these horrible situations start out with a bland thread like 'I'm so upset my dp always ignores my birthday' it's only as the poster continues through that the spitting and swearing, the threatening or hitting gets mentioned. I can well imagine why posters sometimes see the tip of an iceberg.

But the inability to see a single incident, unusual enough to have prompted the poster to start a thread, as a bad moment brought on by tiredness or day to day shit is something of a bandwagon. I don't think it's new, I don't think it's worse and I'm sure nothing can be done about it.
Some posters will always want to be first with whatever they think is the 'current' MN view/post - whether it is 'he's controlling' or 'you sound entitled' or '.

It's dull but that's how it is.

I'm on the fence about this

While there does seem to be a lot of posters on relationships saying that the relationship is abusive or controlling etc, There are a disproportionate number of OPs in relationships who seem to be in very negative relationships including abusive and controlling ones, and it's good that this can be called out by strangers, maybe it will make the OP look differently at their relationship. We only see a snapshot of a relationship in a thread and only what the OP wants posters to see, so all we can respond to is the information that's been posted. Which may appear abusive and controlling and actually not be, or appear abusive and controlling and actually be.

I've also found these threads useful for me as a reader, so hopefully they help other people other than the OP too.

There was a thread the other week where the OP posted about wanting her dh to get vasectomy. After a while people popped up telling the op that they had read their threads before and he was abusive (which when the whole story came out he was) and she should LTB.

Many of these people then continued with 'but you are never going to, you will keep posting on here and not listen to us so why bother posting'

I agreed she shouldn't be with him, given the situation, but find the 'if you aren't going to Ltb then shut up' posts really off. These people act like experts in abusive relationships but don't seem to understand that it's not as easy at that and that telling a poster to put up or shut up is not helpful.

No one is going to walk out of a relationship because someone onn demands it. Even if it's a shit relationship, people need to come to it in their own time and still deserve some support.

I stopped going on relationships a few years ago when I saw women who had decided to stay with their ohs after an affair being called stupid and weak, they were setting themseleves up for it to happen again etc. Rather than supporting then OP in a decision they have made.

tbh I think much of the forceful tone on the relationships boards etc means that those who just want a whinge generally wouldn't post there which means that only those in disfunctional relationships now go there.

And only those who follow exact advice are supported, with a smug "I told you so" given to those who are brave enough to come back when things don't work out. I have seen women absolutely villified on there for daring to try to save their relationships after an affair, even when the dh is genuinely remorseful and has done everything required in order to save the relationship, and the couple have explored together the issues that led to one of them entering down the road of an affair. Because there is no acceptance of anything which might suggest that affairs are often a symptom rather than a cause of problems in a relationship.

I do think the tone on there has changed, because some years ago while there was support there was also a real rescuer complex, with certain posters wanting to be the ones to save the op from certain danger/abuse/control etc, to the extent that wanting to actually meet up with posters to get them out of situations was a common trend.

I don't think that anyone should be considered the voice of reason/experience/good advice on any thread apart from if there is specific advice required e.g. tiktock is often quoted on feeding threads, moondog (if she's still here?) is a salt and was regularly called upon for salt-related advice etc. There are a couple of solicitors e.g. babybarrister who will often give advice or who are called upon to do so.

But no-one is a real relationship expert, and a few "well this is the script, you must do and say x" isn't real advice it is someone's opinion on what someone should do. The idea that "x will be along shortly to advise," statements are IMO really dangerous and do give some posters an inflated sense of importance while leaving the poster feeling pressured into accepting their opinion because they're seen as the "experts." Added to that the quotes I've seen recently that "x hasn't posted on that thread so it must be a troll."

Pre-Mumsnet there was a tendency for women having relationship problems (either with their partner/husband or with extended family) to be advised to put themselves last, try harder to make the other person happy etc.

There has been a backlash against that which is appropriate but things have swung the other way.
Its the certainty of some posters based on very little information that concerns me.
"Your mother is a narcissist-she is incapable of change, I can predict what she will do"
"Your partner is controlling and will always be abusive". "Cherchez la famme"
They do not know these people.
People seeking advice are rarely treated with patience and helped to reach their own decisions. A good real life counsellor would not demand a certain course of action like this with so little information.
Of course there are situations where the only thing the OP can do is get out and support with this is invaluable, especially from the people on here with legal and financial knowledge. The self-appointed relationship experts are pretty dangerous though.

One of the things that annoys me most of all is that people continually cite Wifework but it's obvious that the people citing it have never read it because the book paints an extremely nuanced picture of marriage and emotional labor and sets out a number of recommendations, none of which are EVER mentioned or endorsed on the thread (even by people citing the book - who always move straight to LTB) and most of what is taken as Established Truth on mumsnet (especially on the relationships board) is completely antithetical to what Wifework actually says.

For e.g. one of the big takeaways of the Wifework book is that maintaining the illusion of equality (rather than having actual equality) is part of the emotional labor of "wifework" that many women perform. i.e. patriarchy encourages women to pretend - to their partners and everyone else - that their relationships are equal and that they are happy. In the book the author states that because of this (and male privilege) many men are truly blindsided by divorce/marital problems because they actually believe their relationship is fairly equal. This is borne out in surveys where men think they do equal housework when they don't.

But for Team LTB, this is not true. None of this behavior is unconscious or unintentional. Male behavior is always intentional and with perfect information. If they are making you unhappy, they are doing it TO make you unhappy. They want you to be unhappy... so they must be abusive. This is the irrational leap Team LTB always makes. Basically by definition, if you are in a relationship and you are unhappy, your partner must be an abuser.

One recent thread contained the suggestion that a man was potentially abusive because he bought some cake at the end of a date.

In fairness, the overwhelming consensus on the cake thread was that the guy had been a bit rude and was no loss (first date fixed up via on-line dating), and that possibly the OP needed either to step back from OLD or toughen up a bit. The "potentially abusive" post was an outlier and was roundly laughed out of court by other posters.

Agree with the OP.
I don't read or post on the relationship board (or threads about relationships on here) ,but I have noticed it on a lot of general threads.
Just as an.example, making your kids eat sandwiches for lunch instead of whatever they fancy is control freakery.

lurcio the point is that it's still thrown in.

Therefore the term is still being over ised, even if most laugh at it.

I love apples post

It would be very hard to see the wood for the trees if you'd read six threads with people being told their DH was abusive then to be told yours was, you would start to think it's just something people say but if it wasn't thrown around quite so much you would be more likely to sit up and take notice.

Well, if the husbands were abusive in those 6 threads, maybe I'd take notice that mine actually was abusive.

I just wish I had found MN much earlier. I only left when exH actually hit me, but he had displayed abusive behaviour much earlier.
It would have helped me see the wood for the trees that I was only looking at by being in the marriage.

Although some pps are trigger happy, it makes me more sad that there are many abuse apologists around. Better to have a LTB, as most pps are not likely to, not immediately, even when abuse is blatant, than to have someone tell an abused woman to put up with it.

Does anyone here actually tell women to put up with it, though?

By here, I mean MN, not this thread.

Yes.

There's a difference between being an 'abuse apologist' and noticing that there are a section of reactionary , bloodthirsty trolls who seem only to come on here to advise people who are in perfectly normal relationships , albeit going through a very natural rough patch, to split up their families without a second thought of the damage that could cause. I'll no doubt be labelled abusive for saying this now.

It depends on the situation.

YANBU OP.

Jazeera

Honestly, I've always thought that the perfect relationship for a sizable minority of women on mumsnet requires them to get rid of the biological father and then introduce a step dad. When you have a stepparent as your parenting partner, you are the primary parent so you are are final word on all parenting matters. You don't have to create a truly equal relationship or compromise because you are the expert on your own child. You get to pull rank on your partner and your expectations are naturally lower because "it's not his kid but he loves it like his own".

That's why you get a lot of advice to "make him sleep on the sofa" and other infantilizing bullshit.

The reality is that creating an equal happy marriage with the father of (all) your children would probably require women giving up some of the control they have over the domestic sphere - which is the only place patriarchy has allowed them power - and the truth is that the "mums always know best"/LTB brigade don't want that.

Bulshit

lol. which part?

There are of course unreasonable people on both sides. And I'm sure controlling and abusive are bandied about unnecessarily sometimes. As is the you just need to talk to him (when the OP has spent years doing that).
But there certainly isn't either a mums know best or LTB "brigade".

It is sad when leaving is the only option and it's sad when women have to do it all, regardless of what they prefer, because otherwise their children might go without food or without clean clothes or live in a tip.

I find these threads sad. Particularly when they attract WUMs that call trolls posters who have been through abuse, recognise it and do their best to help other women free themselves from abuse.

WUMs???

wind up merchants

Person who has slightly different interpretaion of things = Wind Up Merchant / Abuse Apologist