To be annoyed at being asked at work to prepare drinks and serve lunch

[Livingtothefull]

I work in an office with around 4 other people, all female, and have been here about 6 months. A couple in the office are PAs and there is a more junior person who supports them & me. I work in a recognised profession and was employed specifically in that professional capacity in a new standalone role; because mine is broadly speaking a 'back office' rather than customer faced role I have been put together in the department with the others although our jobs are largely separate.

It so happens that there is a meeting next week for which a sandwich lunch has been ordered and none of the others will be in the office that day....I have been asked to make sure the sandwiches are laid out and make the teas/coffees.

I am quite prepared to be told I am being arrogant and over precious but: AIBU to be really annoyed about this? I don't intend to denigrate anyone who has chosen a PA role; they are often very talented/qualified people in my experience. Also it is not that I am not willing to support colleagues and muck in when necessary.

But I have worked really hard and studied in my own time & expense to achieve senior professional status and get respect, and so I could do interesting work in the office which I have chosen to do. I also need to get taken seriously so that colleagues understand what I can bring to the business & approach me for support, this is already proving challenging. It is quite a traditional company & I have already been introduced by a senior manager to staff as 'the new (profession name) Assistant' (not my correct job title).

So I think some people are already confused about what my role is. How is it going to help if I am seen to carrying jugs of tea & fruit juice, and trays of sandwiches for meetings?

The meeting by the way is mostly internal and all male..I am not involved in it at all. I am annoyed that it always seems to be the women by default who are asked to do these tasks (there are various male workers in support roles who never get asked).

Op I think a conversation with your manager is required along the lines of 'happy to muck in when there are things to be done but there are lots of people at my level who can help out, including the men'

I am a head of department in an otherwise virtually all-male company. If the (female) PA is out and the (female) web-designer is out (nope it's not her job either) I would routinely be asked to collect guests from reception, make coffees and organise lunch by my male colleagues, many of them junior to me.

I used to refuse and in the end complained to the MD about it who sent an email around.

It wasn't meant maliciously but this kind of ingrained, insidious sexism will torpedo our chances of workplace equality if we don't 'risk' being 'feisty' and speak out.

It doesn't matter that you initially agree - explain that you were put on the spot and, after consideration you would rather not do this as it is not your job and you feel undermined by the request.

Ooh actually I'd go with what CamelHump said, that's perfect.

Ok as a senior manager I would help with setting up the lunch but I would ensure that one of the others available also helped so drag them in to be involved, as if it was perfectly normal.
I would also make the point that there should always be PA cover so holidays should be planned accordingly.

If say the MD helps with tea & sandwiches along with others,people see the MD mucking in along with everyone else....but it doesn't undermine him in his role as MD, if anything it even enhances how he is seen

If I help out with tea & sandwiches I risk being seen as an admin support person. This could cause me (& ultimately the company) real problems further down the line if I give professional advice & it is ignored because people don't recognise that I know what I am talking about.

Camelhump's wording is excellent

our Head of Dept mostly does this, precisely because there can be no doubt over their status, whereas for others it can be problematic.

all of your points are valid, don't be scared of making any of them.

An internal meeting? Can they not put out their own sandwiches and make their own tea ffs?

I agree with camelshump's approach and would suggest it had been a bit of a mix up that I had been asked because I wasn't in the meeting.

Thanks MarchEliza, I am glad that speaking out worked for you & it is shocking that you were ever asked to do this.

I was trying to work out what I disliked about the word 'feisty' which is invariably used in relation to women. Nobody ever called Superman or Henry Vlll 'feisty' so can only assume it means 'exercising power that they don't really have (rather than assuming power that was theirs all along); ie women getting above themselves.

No way I would do this unless there was a major business reason for doing so (like maybe a small company trying to convince a client they have more staff than they actually do!). You do though need to let the PA who asked you know that you are not going to do it otherwise she may get in trouble for not arranging cover and you don't want to be making an enemy of your office colleague. Using the excuse of having a meeting for this or the taxi booking thing is no good, you have to make sure that people understand that it is not your job role. If someone came into me and said, can you book a taxi, I'd smile and say, sorry, PA not here, I can help you by giving you the taxi firm number though.

YANBU. I see exactly where you're coming from. The seating arrangements have led to some confusion as to what your role is in the company. Your concern is that if you're seen to be making tea/coffee and carrying in plates of sandwiches, the assumption may be made that you're the Girl Friday. Next time there's no PAs in, you might be asked to do some photocopying or typing.

Either go back to the PA and tell her that a meeting has come up and she'll have to make other arrangements or else use CamelHump's suggestion.

I would help but then where I work I have seen two of the professors and directors clean the communal kitchen when it gets in a state (which it does frequently).

They don't tell anybody that they do it, they just get on with it

OP - you are absolutely not being unreasonable. As a professional woman in (what can be) a man's environment, it's critical not to be seen to be taking on what were traditionally the 'womans roles'. You are quite right to think that this would undermine your credibility. I absolutely never serve anyone coffee or drinks in a meeting, I never even ask anyone if they would like something if I'm getting one myself .

I think that part of the problem may be where you are situated; if you are sitting with PAs / support staff, then people may quite understandably assume that you are a part of that team. At my workplace we hot desk; I was once at a desk adjacent to the IT support section and people assumed I could help them with their wifi connections (ha - can't even sort my own out!).

I would: 1: speak to your manager about moving to a different area, maybe near a more senior team, 2: make sure your official job title (and in this case, possibly qualifications) is part of your email signature if it isn't already.

I would certainly NOT lay out food for this meeting; side-step it if you must by being unavailable, but a better way to handle it is to explain to your manager that your role is being a little misunderstood and say that you want to make sure your proper role is fully known and established.

Let us know how it goes.. it's up to you to turn it round x

CamelHump has totally nailed it.

People organising a meeting which requires catering should make appropriate arrangements, and if they find their 'go to' admin support is unavailable to help with this then they need to make other arrangements through the proper channels. Have they thought through what help they actually need? Ordering, collecting, moving stuff from drop-off point to meeting room, boiling kettles, filling urns/teapots, pouring out, making sugar and milk available etc. If it's being ordered in then the PAs can do this in advance surely. The tasks needed on the day are probably things the group can do themselves anyway, led by the host as a good bit of ice breaking.

The gender of the participants is to some extent irrelevant: the main issue here is not respecting the role you have been appointed to. How you respond will influence other people's perceptions of you and your role.

Camelhump is right and you shouldn't say any more than this. Absolutely don't get labelled early on as a raving feminist, jobsworth. Success at any new role involves strong internal relationships management, and a certain game to play (in most normal corporates). If you choose not to play the game, only you will lose out in the long run. Once you are established as a great team member, this will all matter less as your brand will be set.

You should appear totally relaxed and non-paranoid about this (even though you might be 100% right with your concern ). As far as everyone else is concerned it wouldn't cross your mind to be responsible for the catering of a meeting you are not involved with. A PA made an innocent mistake asking you because she doesn't worry about such things, but no trouble for you OP! Just pass that one on!

Btw, even if you were involved in the meeting, I think you should not be singled out to put out the food and make coffee for everyone else around the table. What, then you take your seat alongside all the other professionals? In this situation everyone should do it together. And agree that often senior people take the lead as their peering is already so established.

Also, you mention it being an internal meeting, and largely male. In my view the internal element is all that counts here. Never openly consider the fact that the others are male...you are far too credible to worry about male or female differences. Operate like it SHOULD be, not what it might be. So if you ever have to discuss this subject in more detail with colleagues (but really try to follow Camel's advice this time and say no more), I urge you not to mention the 'male/female' factor. Ignore that and focus on the perceptions of your role versus other support functions in the office needing to not be the same.

There is one situation where I would accept performing the role you have been asked to perform: that is in a small organisation, and important clients are coming in, no one else is around, and it is critical that they get the sense of slick client handling and treatment. In that situation, if there was no one else on hand, for the good of the businesses growth I would role play being the Front of House team. I did that once even when I was the owner of the business but not managing this particular client! Clearly this is NOT your situation OP!

Christ, that would make me furious.

Camelhumps suggestion is spot on. Send that email and step back. This meeting is nothing to do with and you there's absolutely no reason why you need to be there setting out sandwiches. Oh wait a minute, of course there is, you're a woman.

What year are in again? Maybe they need reminding it's not the bloody 1950's.

Are you sure you weren't being asked as a favour by the pa? Though you say it's not really their job either. I do agree with you though and whenever I have an admin task to delegate such as minutes, I make sure it goes to the most junior member of the team (unless there's a prior agreement we rotate) and that's usually a man

I think Camelhump's suggestions is the way to go. If they query it you can say you are "too busy".
I think the poster who said quiet resistance is best was right, it puts the onus back on them.

I am not sure whether it is the PA's role Stealth just that I am not sure if it should be. But that is for them to discuss & agree with the manager.

When I come to think about it probably the most junior team member is the admin clerk who is a man & sits elsewhere. But he does 'manly' stuff like helping shift furniture, post bags etc. He has not as yet been asked to make teas to my knowledge.

I am always willing to help and just do whatever is necessary in an 'all hands on deck' situation; this is not the kind of situation I am talking about.
Yes LHReturns, I want to find a way to nip this in the bud without damaging relationships and being seen as not a 'team player' at the outset. This may get easier when I have been there some time and have been seen to add value; but I don't want to set any precedents which will be difficult to reverse later.

Is being really busy enough of a get out? Without having to hAve a meeting? I'm sure any one of the staff in the meeting can arrange it, or between them.

If you're not the office manager then you don't need to know who's job it is. As long as you know it's not yours then just don't do it. Someone else's problem to find the right person.

I'd be spitting feathers.

But the wise move is to send camel humps email and forget the whole incident. Well done for challenging it and not just doing it!

Agree with Sweet - it's not your problem to work out whose job it actually is. You just know it sure as heck isn't in any way part of your job!

Don't get sucked in.

We should all hate the word feisty:

Origin
late 19th century: from earlier feist, fist ‘small dog’, from fisting cur or hound, a derogatory term for a lapdog, from Middle English fist ‘break wind’, of West Germanic origin. Compare with fizzle.

Back on topic, love Camel Hump's response. Perfect.

This is not on. Whoever is the most junior person in the office on that day should arrange this. If that is not you, as all your posts indicate, you need to speak direct to the most senior man attending the meeting on that day. Just say that it is not appropriate to you professional role for you to (literally) cater to them.

Keep it related to your role and don't mention penises or vaginas.

I dunno about this. I work in an office of 40 ppl, and head up a support team of 4. I'm the finance director.

The PA &/or sales PA would normally do this. But if they were off the accountant and/or me would do it. (Which you might be OP?) just as the available support people. Depends on expectations. Gender not that relevant as 2 of the support team are male and most of the client facing staff are female. It's the fact that we're back office...