'The only way we've sorted a sleep prob in this house is controlled crying' - fuck off!!

[Smataya]

I text friend who has two under two how hard it's been of late with Ds 11 months just not sleeping. I've explained before he is just not a sleeper and likes to be close at night, wakes a lot for milk and that I'm doing attachment parenting. She knows how against cc I am and I will not ever leave my child to cry. Ds has not slept for longer than an hour since he was 5 months which is starting to take its toll, but as I say, he's just not a sleeper and it's tough.

Why the f is she doing this pa bull shit about cc over text?? She's been like eerr have you tried sleep training to me before and I just don't want to hear it. Her two sleep through and I just find it smug- she's got lucky and now claiming its all down to cc. Am I justified in texting back to say ftfo to the far side of fuck?!?!

Is everyone ignoring OP opening up to changing her mind? RTFT!

Hope you are ok.

I cosleep but it's no bother as v lucky and dd mostly just wakes once or twice for a snooze and goes back to sleep. Oh and we have started off starting her each evening in her cot which helps (9 months).

Have you thought about allergies or intolerances? I know a few little babies who have had bad sleep until their diets changed. Just a thought. Any bad nappies or eczema or constant snot?

Perfect example of someone being so obsessed with a label that they lose all perspective on reality and forget that the point is tomake sure the baby is getting what it needs. And what it needs is more than 1 hour of sleep at a time. It needs that much more than you need to "win" at parenting methods with your Saint of a friend.

Co-sleeping is probably the reason he doesn't sleep for long, he's used to short sleeps with a boob right next to him for regular comfort feeds all night. There is no reason he needs this, not physiologically or emotionally, he's stuck in a newborn pattern because you never moved him on from that.
Moving him to his own bedside cot and doing a gentle sleep training method would probably revolutionise your life.

Maybe do some research before writing all non AP parenting off as akin to child abide?

If the baby is not sleeping more than an hour then he's never gone into the correct amount of REM or delta wave sleep and this is not good - the baby must also be exhausted.

There needs to be some sort on intervention so the baby can learn to sleep for at least 4 hours, to get a full sleep cycle in.

Doesn't have to be CC but it needs to be something. This lack of sleep will damage a child's health as sleep is vital for growth and development.

I used the baby whisperer method for sleep, and also DD's habit waking for milk (she wasn't really hungry, it was just a habit to get a bit of a snack) which worked for me.

I hate the AP tribe's inference that the only way to have healthy, happy children is to be attached to them 24/7 for their first 3 years or so.

It isn't 'natures' way at all! In nature, the mother's of small mammals have to go off to find food and leave their babies in between, crying or not. No young animal would develop the resilience to survive independently if their Mother was seeing to their every need and allowing them to develop such intense interdependence.

In third world countries, the babies may be breastfed and co-sleep, but their mothers are working in the fields all day to survive, the baby has to adapt to allow for life to go on!

I have two teenagers, one bf till 6 months, weanted to solids at 3 months and sleeping through the night by then, the other bf till 3 months, no solids until 8 months but sleeping through the night by 9 months. I was 'baby-led' by their needs, but I certainly had expectations and stuck to a routine of bedtimes that the babies understood.

My babies were put to bed warm and full of milk, we had a wind-up musical, fishy light thing in the cot when they were babies. It played for about 8 minutes and if they were still making noises after that, it was would be wound up again, and again until they were sleeping. If they (rarely) woke through the night, they were given a cuddle and put back to bed. Nothing else was on offer.

Somehow, despite me, they're both just fine. The best parents to learn from are happy parents with happy babies, not from militant groups who guilt you into believing that there are no other options - that's similar to the worst form of religious cults.

Oh fuck, I wrote a really long reply about co sleeping and being able to sleep train at the same time and lost it

Basically there is so much middle ground to be explored, it's about finding what works for you and your dc, and still agrees with your own ethics.

OP read lots of different books and cherry pick what suits you, don't pigeon hole yourself.

I hope you find something soon

OP you need to get this sorted. Babies need chunks of sleep so they can grow properly. Your baby isn't getting the amount of sleep needed.

You don't have to do cc (which is not the same as cio) , bedtime routine and watch your babies body language like the 3 yawns.. Catch them on the second yawn and pop them in the cot. Then go in and do shush pat.. No eye contact or picking up. Do that repeatedly every night until your baby is used to it and learns to self settle from the minute she's put in the cot.

Or find another method because the one you're using isn't working and isn't good for her health or yours.

Repetition and consistency is the key to any kind of sleep training whatever you choose.

I think dotdotdot's post is brilliant. You find what works for you, forget about all these different named methods (only named by the way so someone can earn a quick buck) be a parent. Follow their needs. Good luck!

Well I hate the way people lump groups together dotdot, so f off with the whole 'AP tribe' thing and acting as if people have a hive mind.

I have never said out loud 'I do AP' because tbh I have never read anything about it and just pick and choose bits. We co-slept mostly by accident, used slings for convenience, bf because it happened to work out. But I have a naughty step and a pram and buy ready meals and awful snacks for them sometimes :). I think I did light CC with my son but actually do not remember for sure. I use a mix of methods, as do many people. A bit of co-sleeping or not liking CCing doesn't turn you into a tribe member. It's just a difference of opinion.

And co-sleeping needn't be a problem. It depends on the child. It has worked very well for me, which is anecdotal of course but so is nearly everything on this thread.

get a grip will you she prob sick of you saying your not sleeping

also what can anyone do to help you if you dont let your child cry

my son will cry at bedtime but its a minuet and he falls asleep ,

CC is a good thing if done proper also quickly stops sleep deprived nights

WHAT DID YOU WANT HER TO SAY TO YOU

Can I ask why you are against controlled crying? Also do you in some way enjoy the fact that your son doesn't sleep through and needs you to do things to help him?
We all need sleep to function and it sounds as if he isn't getting enough unbroken sleep to enable him to release growth hormones which will affect his development.
Is this about your son's needs or about your unwillingness to have short term inconvenience for long term advantage. Genuinely curious....

Well I hate the way people lump groups together dotdot, so f off with the whole 'AP tribe' thing

I genuinely can't see the need to swear at some a stranger on a forum because you don't like their opinion. Can we try to stay adults, I certainly will?

*Oops, finger-brain disconnect typing fail.

I ap'd my dc and my 5 yr old still wakes during the night and my 3 yr old still wakes for milk. The don't sleep with us anymore as they wanted more room but imo there is NO solution!

Some kids sleep good, some kids sleep shite. Just don't bother telling her about it because she might be fed up hearing about it.

I still baby wear my 3 yr old in a moby, how's that for dedication! Lol

I was a bit 'meh' about AP before reading this thread. I'm now 'no fucking way' about it. How indulgent can you get??

Fucking child abuse?

You know, sleep deprivation is a form of abuse.

So you refusing to allow your baby to sleep is abuse, if we want to start labelling.

Helping your baby adapt to a sleep pattern that will benefit him is not.

I can't believe you think she's the smug one!

Op start a new thread in the sleep topic on the advice you do need. This thread is too far gone! you will get lots of support.

For what its worth I co-slept and bf but one day it became obvious that dd slept better before we went to bed, she now sleeps all night in her bed. We still occasionally cosleep but I always regret it in the morning, we need our space.

Controlled Crying is neglect and emotionally abusive. It is sadly part and parcel of parents wanting to have children yet have none of the 'inconvenience'. A by product of capitalism and me me me culture.

YANBU

A zebra finch has just entered the room, all meep and no suggestions.

" I just want him to be secure and happy and a bit of sleep deprivation seems a small price to pay."

This is one of the most insulting things I have read on here.

Sorry but AP does NOT mean that your child will be secure and happy and those of us that accept a baby can be put down and not completely pandered to 24/7 will have unhappy and insecure children. What an idiotic thing to say.

Whether you like it or not, CC works and it doesn't have to be extreme. You aren't damaging them, you don't leave them indefinitely (that would be cry it out). You carry on and be a martyr not getting any sleep but don't complain to others because you chose this. Oh and I can't imagine your child is overly happy with such broken sleep all the time.

Capitalism fucking capitilism actually lold at that.

Sorry OP but im with your friend. Getting a sense of "drama llama". Are you sprinting in there every time you hear the slightest noise, DW did that with DC1,remarkable how quickly the sleeping settled down once she stopped overreacting to the slightest noise.

I get it some children just sleep lightly, but from posts you seem very tense about it all, babies sense tension. DW calls me the baby whisperer because of how quickly I get them off sound asleep, I don't do anything special, I'm just very relaxed about it.