'The only way we've sorted a sleep prob in this house is controlled crying' - fuck off!!

[Smataya]

I text friend who has two under two how hard it's been of late with Ds 11 months just not sleeping. I've explained before he is just not a sleeper and likes to be close at night, wakes a lot for milk and that I'm doing attachment parenting. She knows how against cc I am and I will not ever leave my child to cry. Ds has not slept for longer than an hour since he was 5 months which is starting to take its toll, but as I say, he's just not a sleeper and it's tough.

Why the f is she doing this pa bull shit about cc over text?? She's been like eerr have you tried sleep training to me before and I just don't want to hear it. Her two sleep through and I just find it smug- she's got lucky and now claiming its all down to cc. Am I justified in texting back to say ftfo to the far side of fuck?!?!

The more I read this the more I feel so so sorry for your ds, What you are doing is not natural or healthy for the bairn.

The first thing I would try personally would be moving him to his own space to sleep -be it a open sided cot designed to fit to your bed, a cot in your room or his own room. See if he feels more comfortable having his own space. He may be an extremely sensitive sleeper who is disturbed by heavy breaking, snoring, too much body heat, the proximity to available food. Give him a chance to find his own comfort levels. Just because you enjoy sleeping together doesn't mean he does.
Some good suggestions of books up thread. I actually think this thread has been very fair and open generally, not polarised at all.

OP, I am so glad that you have agreed to look into no crying sleep training - I really feel for you and your baby as sleep deprivation is awful. I hope you find something that world for your family.

MIL tells me BIL never slept through the night until he was 7 and to this day (he is in his 50s) he does not sleep well at night and as a consequence chose a job with a lot of night shifts. Not great as he doesn't see much of his wife and DCs as a result.

All because MIL chose to do nothing about poor sleep habits when he was small. In his case the sleep problems never resolved themselves.

If this is what AP teaches I wouldn't call it a parenting method, it sounds more like a complete refusal to parent.

We did shh pat with ours - we didn't know that shh pat was A Thing (back in the Dark Ages, pre Internet times yadda yadda)

OP your friend has two under 2. Of COURSE she's going to be routineing them as a coping strategy incl strict bedtimes. So cc was a tool she used.

I agree you have likely conflated cc and cio.

NCSS is ace acc to my friends.

Good luck my dear.

Some of us are doing AP stuff just because we have babies who respond better to it than the alternatives, honestly. Maybe your friends are the same?

I would not say that waking up every hour of the night is a "better" response. Even my newborns didn't wake hourly.

I despair at parental labeling. I parented what felt right actually totally differently with both dcs as they were individuals. If it's not working please try something else. We did cc, or what was a sort of pre Internet, with our second and of the two she is by far the more independent sociable child. I don't how ever think this has anything to do with cc or anything else we did babies and children are individuals. Please treat them as such.

My ds woke up every hour pretty much on the hour until he was ten months. He also took hours and hours to go to sleep. We would lie with him, rock him, feed him, rub him and he would scream and scream. It took us ten months before we realised he was overstimulated. He needed to us to go away and leave him alone. In the dark. With no noise.
After about three nights of this he was going to sleep at 7pm not 11pm after four hours of screaming.
He did not however sleep through until he was four and a half. CC in the night did not work for us. He would cry and cry and cry and could keep it up for hours at a time.

What worked was bribing him (obviously yours is too young) but at four and a half I told him if he went a night without waking us up he could have a sticker and when he had five stickers he could have a treat.

He's never woken us up again. Ever.

Oh and by CC I don't think she ever really cried. We just withdraw slowly and let her settle herself over a few weeks.

I just want him to be secure and happy and a bit of sleep deprivation seems a small price to pay.

Thing is, is that he can be secure & happy, and you don't have to be sleep deprived.

You don't even need to do CC, there are more gentler methods than that!

Apparently some babies don't produce enough of the sleep hormone. Certainly my ds didn't lose the flinging his arms out and looking startled reflex that newborns usually have until he was about 3. He regularly woke himself up doing that.

I hope all those who are "chronically sleep deprived" are not driving cars.

"This thread is so polarised" Was just coming on to post that actually, I don't think it is, when Mrsdevere got in first. There are lots of 'middle ground' views here.

And what is cio?

I would not say that waking up every hour of the night is a "better" response. Even my newborns didn't wake hourly.

Mine woke every 45 minutes for a while. It was hell. Shush-pat did not work, trying to calm her in the cot did not work, leaving her to see if she settled herself down again really did not work, putting her down drowsy but not awake did not work, having a good bedtime routine did not work. Co-sleeping, on the other hand, got her sleeping in 4-5 hour chunks.

I don't think waking hourly is sustainable for anybody either - that's why I have been suggesting other resources to the OP. But it is just not true that anyone doing AP stuff would have a baby who slept right through if they didn't, and all it takes is a bit of work to get them settling in their cots. Some babies are just not good sleepers.

CIO = "Cry It Out". As in, leave them in their rooms, shut the door, and don't go back in until the morning.

Although I have heard people use CIO to describe what we'd usually call CC - let them cry in ever-increasing instalments, going back in to quickly reassure/pat/whatever then leaving again, until they get themselves to sleep.

CIO = cry it out.

Baby is basically just left alone until they cry themselves to sleep no matter how long it takes

I think that's it anyway.

CIO- cry it out

When I did CC the longest DS was left alone was 8 minutes. I'm no sure if longer periods are used in other approaches though.

From my experiences (4 dc) I would ask you if you have checked that there is any reason that your baby cannot sleep longer than an hour at a time. My DS2 was dreadful when a baby, it turned out he had hernias which needed to be repaired.

Ah right. In that case, I too have come across many people who seem to think that's what Controlled Crying is.

But I'd always be wondering if this baby doesn't like co-sleeping either. Maybe the OP is inadvertently disturbing him. Perhaps he just wants a bit of peace and quiet on his own?

clam - I get irritated sleeping next to DH, every movement, noise and sniffle he makes disturbs me.

I was told the reason my DS may be waking so much at night was because I was disturbing him, not that he was actually waking of his own accord. Hence why putting him in his own room was suggested which absolutely helped.

Agree Clam
DD hated being in bed with us. She used to make a little noise thst meant "im tired i need to go in my cot now" and she would go straight off. If you tried to bring her into our bed she eould get wriggly and start crying.

CC (IMO) is not the only way but you asked her advice and she gave you her sopinion on what works best or her, Cant crucify her for that. As someone said, you seem the kind of AP who crucifies anyone for not doing it your way Everyone has their own way, unless you don't do it my way then you're wrong

After I've done DS's (16 months old) bedtime feed and we've read his stories I always give him a really nice cuddle with a bit if rocking and he snuggles into my shoulder. However, he knows when he needs his own space because he pulls away from me and points at his cot to let me know that's where he wants to go. I then pop him in, give him a kids and then he promptly waves at me and says "bye bye"

It's very sweet even if it does leave me feeling unwanted, lol

There's a lot of hypocrisy on this thread.

Look if you don't want to do Cc, that's fine. I didn't. Well I tried but after two weeks DS just became more and more hysterical so I stopped. I'm sure someone will say that I did it wrong but I think it was just the wrong approach for him. For some kids, it works great.

Basically I went for the cosleeping approach and it took him longer than other kids to sleep through. But now he sleeps great! 12-13 hours, easy bedtimes, no stupidly early morning wake ups. It's lovely. Just took its sweet time.

I suggest researching all sleep strategies, making a list of the most preferable to least preferable and trying each one for two-three weeks until something works.

Oh and if you don't agree with someone else's POV, it's much better to smile and nod.