to ask why, if it's generally accepted to be the behaviour of a twat, do parents exclude a couple of kids from class parties?

[Chippedrippedandstinking]

Inspired by Lappy's thread, we all agree it's wrong and yet it happens. With flame amnesty, will abuone admit to doing it, and if so, why?
And if it happened to you, did you call the parents on it?

I've only seen it once, the mother was taken aside and an invitation was issued.

That isn't a link..I am tired

BTW I say that as a parent of a child who as SN and rarely gets invitted.
The reason is usually that he doesn't communicarte well (social communication issue) so few people actually see him as 'a friend'.

But I know that I would have thought twice about leaving him at a party where I knew he could be getting aggressive (which he has been at some point). It wouldn't have been nice, neither for him, nor for the other childrem nor for the parent organising the party (It's stressful enough like this anyway!)

Just because something is more tricky doesn't mean it shouldn't be done. Even if it involves a bit more planning. .do the right thing.

That was a general request

I have a few friends who go out of their way to have their kids spend time with DD. I'm sure that it's pretty boring for the kids but I'm also sure they will turn into lovely children.

It was DD's 5th birthday earlier this year, we invited all the girls from her class and around half the boys (so 7ish from 28 excluded). There was also a few from the other classes in her year.

DD is very friendly but quite timid, the boys she didn't want to invite are all part of the same friendship group and are too boistorous for her. Some of these boys also specialise in upsetting others (other girls in the class also have issues with them), the school is dealing but it continues. Yeah, they are 5 and it is possible they have got special needs but in this instance it's not things like invading personal space and missing social cues but deliberately teasing, poking, taking things etc.

Inviting these people would have made DD very anxious at her own party. Children need to learn to be inclusive but I'm not willing to teach DD that she must make herself uncomfortable just to please other people.

I wouldn't exclude a child just because of special needs, I'd ask one of their parents to stick around help though as I'd prefer not to have to spend the whole time worrying about the child being over-whelmed or upset (sorry if that make my selfish).

The thing is people who don't invite children who are disruptive etc etc might not be 'nice' people but you have to remember that parents of children who are disruptive can also be real twats.

Not every parents of disruptive children are parents who are conscious that they dc is having some issues. Actually, I would reckon that the ones whose children don't actually have any SN migt be more likely to be 'VERY offended' if you were suggesting that they should come to the party.

And the ones who have a child with SN, some of them will be clued up and others will not have realised the issue yet or not see any problem with it. I have friend like this who refused to see any issue despite teachers telling her otherwise for years (her dc is now being diagnosed with ASD).

All those people will be most offended by the proposal of staying at the party.

Fanjo other side of the coin, dc1 has to deal with dc2 everyday, that means dealing with his angry meltdowns where he gets hit.

I'm sure he will turn out to be a very kind child for having leaarnt to be ppatient etc with his lttle brother.

But does it mean he also has to cope with aggressive child from his class at his b'day, that he is not allowed a calm, quiet day wo any aggression?

This thread has made very interesting reading and I am pleased I have never had to face such I dilemma. It sounds a nightmare.
My DD is in special education and the school make a very big fuss on birthdays. The child has a short class party with a few games and a card signed by everyone in the class and a cake. At lunchtime the whole school sing happy birthday to the child too. If a child's birthday falls in the holidays they have their celebration on the last day of term or the first day of the next, whichever is nearest. I suppose its easier to do something like this in a special school as the class numbers are much smaller.
It makes things easier though as we then just have family and friends from out of school for a small celebration at home and we don't have the worry of who to invite.

Pogo not selfish, realistic that you migt not have the tools to deal with a child with SN you have never met.

The issue I find isn't when they are 5yo though. It's when they are 8 or 9yo and supposed to be much more independent.

There's a lot of arguments about bullies being excluded. I've never come across that. What I HAVE come across is an awful lot of the children being bullied being excluded by the bullies and their friends as an extension of the bullying.

And they normally get away with it because the reason why they are bullies is because they've been brought up by people who subscribe to the 'Just because I don't like somebody I'm entitled to be as nasty to them as I want and dehumanise them and humiliate them even if they've done nothing wrong but just look a bit different or eat funny food'.

For a good example of this sort of parent it's worth looking at the recent thread 'WIBU to incinerate my trainee'. When you read things like that it's not surprising some parents indulge in this sort of behaviour.

Half or under.

To exclude one is inexcusable imo.

Well it's up to you fanofhermione. If you are happy to leave the child with SN out when you know what it's like that's between you and your conscience isn't it :)

But that's not my querstion is it?

I'm asking if you would be happy to have your NT child b'day being spoiled by an aggressive child who might or might NOT have SN when he is already dealing with that home EVERY SINGLE DAY.

But that's not my querstion is it?

I'm asking if you would be happy to have your NT child b'day being spoiled by an aggressive child who might or might NOT have SN when he is already dealing with that home EVERY SINGLE DAY.

Sorry, too soon...

Is it really fair on the NT sibling? Is it fair on that child to never have one day wo having to deal with some aggressivity?

Tbh it's imo very similar to the times when one child with SN is sat next to him all the time 'because he is the one who can keep him calm so it's easier to deal with' (said to me bu the teacher tbw). Is that fair to ask him to deal with SN issue at home AND at school?

He is a child too and deserve to be protected too.

Do small nt children really want the whole class but one inviting based on the fact someones hit them once? Or even when it comes to just half the class? After best friends dd usually made up numbers based on their qualities in terms of 'fun', not down to one off instances.
Yy to the idiot parents who view their darling offspring as above all wrong being the ones who get arsey if asked to stay.

Well it's your decision to make fanof

Itsmine - the bullies who made my life a daily misery, who drove me to suicidal thoughts aged 14, were not out and out thugs - they never laid a finger on me. But that doesn't mean that what they did to me was any less painful and damaging, and there is no way I would have wanted to socialise with them.

Wouldnt do class parties, wouldnt invite bully. My experience is that bully parents dont believe their child is capable and must be provoked in some way. I boy recently trashed a classroom and i later saw him down the park. Another girl cut a childs hair and still went to the pictures. Most kids turn out well. Pity they make others a misery in the process.

Don't really understand this.

My kids invited who they wanted and we listened to them. It's their party not a statement of intent, a suck up to other parents or a life lesson in acceptance. It's a party.

They invited their friends as adults would do.

We had all sorts of kids to their parties and that was fine.

It's not just "whole class" party issues either - a friend of mine got very upset because her DS was the only boy not invited to a party - the class has a majority girls so there's only 12 boys. The mum just did a small party with 10 invitees, told the birthday boy to name 10 friends, so with him that was 11, one boy left out. To the mum, it looks like she's invited a third of the class, dodged the "leaving only one or two out" issue - but she hadn't looked at the full class list and realised she was therefore leaving out just one boy.

I had words with friend and said that unless you aren't going to do a whole class party, you can't win - that birthday boy could have named one or two girls from his class and it wouldn't have been an issue that she'd limited him to 10 friends.

Fanjo you still haven't answered the question though.

Do you think that NT siblings of children with SN deserve to be as protected than children with SN? Or is it that, because they are NT, they have so many advantages that it doesn't matter?

More widely, the child whose b'day it is has their own life and their own difficulties. They might have an abusive parent, one that is alcoholic, siblings with their own issues, escaping from a house with domestic violence, who knows?
Don't they need to be protected too? Shouldn't we take that into account and let them have ONE day (or rather a couple of hours) just for them for once?

When I look at my dcs, I see the needs of both children, the ones who has some SN and the ones who is NT but is struggling to live in a house where everyone has to walk on eggshell.
My dc with SN deserve to be treated nicely but so do the one who is NT.
It is heart breaking when all the people who were supposed to come to his b'day cancelled at the last minute (something else 'better' came along). That's the one with SN.
It would be heartbreaking to see my NT dc having to deal yet again with a child whose behaviour is hard to deal with, on his b'day, at THE one time he should have been happy and relaxed.

The NT child or the one with SN isn't more deserving there. Whatever choice you are making, it is going to hurt someone.
But I refuse to say that the hurt that the NT child would have is somehow less important than the one from the child with SN (Note: when this happened to my own dc with SN, he actually wasn't bothered.... So the 'hurt' woud have been more about me rather than about him iyswim)

Last comment: I have never not invited a child because of behaviour problems. The problem was solved by NEVER inviting the whole boys group.

I'm not going to answer it. You need to make the choice you feel is right in a particular situation

I was horrendously bullied at primary school for being shy and smart. A girl invited the entire school to her party and made a point of not inviting me. Just me.

When challenged on it, her mum said they assumed I wouldn't want to go as no one liked me.