to ask why, if it's generally accepted to be the behaviour of a twat, do parents exclude a couple of kids from class parties?

[Chippedrippedandstinking]

Inspired by Lappy's thread, we all agree it's wrong and yet it happens. With flame amnesty, will abuone admit to doing it, and if so, why?
And if it happened to you, did you call the parents on it?

I've only seen it once, the mother was taken aside and an invitation was issued.

Boneybackjefferson sadly some parents can't distinguish poor behaviour and parenting from the behabiour that some SN brings.

Cross post with OP. This was serious behaviour issues I agree. The child is certainly now a bully, or at the very least, demonstrates bullying behaviours on a daily basis. I didn't particularly label him a bully back then, but again I see no reason why my child should have to accept being punched repeatedly, and then have to invite that child to his party. Sorry, but I don't.

Tomato children are pretty indiscreet. I expect it's usually fairly obvious that you are the only one not invited to a party if everyone else is talking about it.

Maybe you could've invited the child and asked the mum/dad to stay and supervise as your child was fearful due to previous behaviour, but that you didn't feel it was nice to exclude only him.

And for the record the child in question had no diagnosed special needs. I don't know about undiagnosed ones. But in mine and my child's experience of him over five years, he's just an unpleasant boy. He may change over the years, he may not, but he will not becoming to any of my child's parties again.

Chipped

I agree, but parents have to make the decision on the information that they have.

"Mehitabel6"

You are adamant that the child not going to the party is being bullied by exclusion.

You seem to be saying that the child who is the bully's victim should be forced to tolerate the actions of the bully by being forced to include them.

Are you also saying that the bully should be rewarded by going to the party and there actions ignored?
How will that change the bully's behaviour?

If someone you work with is bullying you would you invite them to your wedding, birthday, child's christening?
Why should the bully's victim be forced to?

A few reasons why I have seen that happening:

• one child clearly has illness, you don't know what, don't know the parents and worried about coping with a child that might have some serious issues (Think child with a TA due to said illness etc...).
• one child being really unpleasant in class so much so that b'day cvhild doesn't want to invite him/her
• parents falling out with each other
• parents of b'day child knowing that xx is a real trouble maker and do not want to have to deal with said trouble maker.

Obvioulsy I'm talking about children who are left and the parents are leaving but still young enough that it's harder to deal with them. So from between Y2 and Y5ish.

At our school, whole class or whole boys/girls stopped around Y2 for the reasons above. Much easier to deal with things when you invite only a few. At least, you can choose.

My son is the one who hasn't been invited to several whole class parties and I'd assume he fits the label of a bully as he's been in scrapes with children I'd consider more vulnerable than him. It's taken a long time for the school to even acknowledge he needs extra support to manage his emotional state and its only now he can articulate his emotions that his issues are being taken more seriously. I've been concerned for a long time but it's always been poo pooed. I am not proud and I am upset about his inappropriate behaviour and I've been concerned about the children involved.

That said. I really don't care for other parents who have a narrow minded viewpoint, though I understand why someone may not want to invite him and he hasn't actually been bothered about being excluded as he seems to live in the now anyway.

I'll most probably be ripped to pieces now, but ho hum :(

Fwiw I look at children in a class the same way I would look at the office at work. Yoou have people yoou like, ones you don't like. The person who is a pain in the A for everyone else often will not invitted to a 'whole office' party/drink dowen the road/lunch at xxx on Friday.

It's crap but should everyone have to suffer the bad behaviour of one just because ?

In the same way, if you invite people at the office to have lunch together on your b'day, do you really want to have someone who completely dislike and is making your life a misrey? I don't think so.

Why do people feel the need for these huge, invite everyone parties. Unless tiny village school with a handful of kids, no child of any age will play with/like every member of a 30 pupil class. Sometimes just seems like some parents just try to out do each other. When I went to pick up some balloons for DDs 4th birthday, the woman who served me said "Oooh where are you having it?" Then looked at me like I was really odd when I said "at home with a few friends and family". I'm sorry I couldn't afford to entertain or hire a space for 30 kids plus cousins etc, and nor would I want to. DD plays with only maybe 4 or 5 kids there on a regular basis and things boys stink lol.

Lol chipped I doubted I'd be the only one to make that point!
Even when kids are older you don't always know, dds invited friends she's made past infants age home whether from school or elsewhere and quite often the first I've heard to suspect there could be anything more than being a rather 'naughty' nt child is when the parent starts checking I'm ok with the diet requirements, am I ok with dealing with them when x happens, am I sure I don't mind they'll do x etc etc.

You also need to remember that actually things also happen the other way around, ie a child with behaviour problem invites all the boys/girls/class and receives no answers or people say yes nad then don't turn up (or say yes and then cancelled).

In that case, is that also bullying or is the parents/children just choosing what works best for them? Is that not excluding the child still?

Where do you draw the line?

Damson and abuone else easing this, most SN children aren't diagnosed for years and THAT is why Young children who's behaviour is unsavoury should always be given the benefit of the doubt.

I hear you, Owllady.

Thinks

Tomato children are pretty indiscreet. I expect it's usually fairly obvious that you are the only one not invited to a party if everyone else is talking about it. that unfortunatly is one of the downsides, but there is very little anyone can do about that. None of the boys would have rubbed it in his face or made a big deal about it because they are not spiteful little bullies. The alternatives were 1. Not having the party at all (not an option for my son was feeling very emotional about leaving), 2. Invite the bully (no way I would make my child do that - especially as one of the ways the school fixed the problem was to ensure that the bully had no contact with my son in the playground) or 3. Exclude some of the other boys so the bully didn't feel left out (WHY, just why would I do that?). I just went with option 4. To not invite the bully.

Mehitab, I think you're lookig at this with your teacher head on. Schools do have a duty to include all pupils in activities as far as they can, and to educate each individual child to the best of your ability, however much you may dislike a child's nature. It is part of their education, which is a legal right. Parents organising out of school activities just don't have the same obligation. If they have an extreme issue with a child (eg that child has intentionally and deliberately repeatedly harmed their child physically or emotionally, which incidentally is my view of the proper definition of bullying), then they have absolutely no obligation, morally or otherwise, to invite that child to ANYTHING. They just don't.

I think your view of bullying is extreme. As others have said, excluding someone from a party and repeatedly and delightedly telling them they aren't invited, or waving all their other invitations to everyone else in the class in the air, WOULD be bullying. As would telling all the other kids to leave someone off future party guest lists. But a victim of bullying in my view would be so scared of the real bully that this would not happen. The child is more likely to be too terrified of the bully to even look at them, never mind "rub it in" that they aren't invited.

That's really shit owllady.
I really hope you get a solution and meet some less judgemental people.

In terms of SN, I will and hope most parents would be teaching their kids to show consideration and tolerance (as I imagine it does feel like a big compromise when your 5 years old and can't have party poppers etc cos another kid with SN can't deal with loud unexpected noises) but I think that a reasonable amount of compromise. However on my dc's birthday I'm happy to accept them being 'a little' more selfish than usual, e.g I wouldn't be changing the format of an activity they wanted to do to suit a child with additional needs, if I thought there was a child with a very high tendency towards violence and someone was likely to get hurt or if the child with SN had previously been violent towards my DC, even just once, and this caused my dc not to want them there I probably wouldnt invite them.

On another day which wasn't there birthday I would expect them to make more allowances.

I don't want kids with SN to be left out but on their birthday I put my child's wishes not to feel physically threatened by a violent child above that.

I'm skim reading alot of the thread but I have a 16 & 14 year old too. The eldest is severely disabled with extremely challenging behaviour. I am world weary. I am also shocked though at the lack of enthusiasm to deal with the route of behaviour in 'supposedly' normal children. I don't suspect my son is nt, I think he has issues that are outside of our remit, I think the school need to draw on more support. He's deeply unhappy because he knows what he does is wrong.

I'm stared at every time I go out with our eldest, so I'm not sure I care/notice the looks at his mainstream school. I notice he's not invited to stuff but it's a moment of disappointment. I'm just hoping that he'll get the correct support to grow into a well rounded human being who is happy. That's all I wish for, he's a lovely, gentle boy under his impulsivity and anger :(

CHipped yes you can say that you should give the benefit of the doubt and say 'well it MIGHT be SN'.

But it doesn't solve the problem of 'what the heck do you do with that child at the party?'
Soft play is easy, they hardly see each other.
A bouncy castle at a village hall is a different issue. So then, if said child has no SN or the parents don't care or are oblivious and leave the child to your care, what do you do to control the child who has a meltdown/is being aggressive to another child/breaks things up etc etc?

The problem is you won't know how the parents are, whether they will onvolved/stayed at the party/ will give you tips until the day of the party. When it's too late.

Or you invite the child with a special mention for the pparents 'can only come if you are present' I can see that been well received too

And bless you, owllady, you are clearly not the type of parent that people are talking about when we talk about horrible parents that insist their little Johnny is an angel and it's everyone else with the problem (while conveniently failing to see him punching another child in the corner). You aren't denying that your child has an issue and are trying to do something about it. I'm sure other parents would recognise this.

I haven't ever left him at a party alone Fwiw as I am responsible like that, most of us dealing with this are but obviously there are exceptions to to the rule in any community.

Incidentally his friend who is dx with adhd and him are the easiest to look after when together on playmates and I think it's because they both empathise with one another's issues!

it doesn't solve the problem of 'what the heck do you do with that child at the party?'

So just dont invite them and just invite the easy kids?

Fanofhermione absolutely say to the parents that they need to stay. Do it gently and kindly of course but yes yes yes. "would you mind staying with Jonny at the party? He and Ollie have had a few scuffles and Id really like Jonny to feel comfy so it'd be great if you stayed. It's only a couple of hours."