to think 'the sun' is utter scum over the queen's 'nazi salute' ?

[mrsfuzzy]

it might be 'historical significance' but is it really ? the film taken in 1933 shows the royal family doing nazi salutes. the 'salute' was not really known about then as to what it would come to signify and this seems scummy behaviour on behalf of the sun to print it.
everyone now involved is dead, but the queen still has to hear it,
i'm not into royalty but this seems shitty in my book.

I had a look at that picture and didn't think they were doing the Natzi salute. They were looking down rather looking up and forward like you would if you were doing a salute. It looks as if she is about to do a cartwheel. Maybe I'm miss reading it.

But to this family playing in the garden he was just someone with a funny characteristic that they could copy for the camera.
How can you possibly know that?.... just because you think so doesn't make it true.

Dear god, why is this necessary?

A little bit of reading about the time would be edifying.

1. We all know about Edward VII.
2. Many of us know a bit about how people in general, all across Europe including within Germany, saw Hitler and his early political posturing
3. Many of us also have a bit of knowledge of the times that allowed Hitler to rise as he did - and that includes so very many people across Europe, UK included, thinking he had some good ideas.
4. We all know (or should know) how that changed once he was in power.

So what the fuck is all that about? A snapshot of time, denuded of context and meaning (and yes, it does look as though they were learning how to do cartwheels in the lead picture) - yay, how clever!

Dear Sun Editor,
update your education and use your damn brain for something useful, meaningful and, maybe, even interesting. If you think you've hit Watergate levels of investigative journalism I am sorry to disappoint you - you have not.

All you have done is fed the nasty, jingoistic members of widely despised organisations. Though, with your past record, I suspect that is exactly what you intended.

Thankfully many people in the UK can read and think for themselves.

Fuckwits all!

The Nazis were anti semitic from day one, that is a matter of record. Even before they rose to power in 1933 they were well known for being virulently anti semitic. I certainly think senior members of the Royal Family would have been aware of this in 1933.
Given the Queen was only 7 at the time she can't in any way be held responsible. Her mother is a different matter though.
I think it was right to publish it - it's a legitimate story and reminds us how sympathetic some parts of the aristocracy were to Nazi Germany.

I think the ssusun are scumbags for pedalling lies about Hillsborough victims and hacking the phones of murder victims. This, less so.

Its a story that sheds light on two influential members of the British Royal family both long suspected of Nazi sympathies. It sheds light on that.

I don't think anyone is implying that the queen or her sister were enthusiastic Nazis (or fun sized fascists as the Sun would probably put it). I get the impression that for some people on this thread will tolerate no criticism of the Royal Family.

pretty sure if the Queen and Queen mum were fascists we'd have found out before now.

the sun have hit a real low with this one.

80 years ago.

But given that a Nazi war criminal has just been prosecuted, (and could have been prosecuted years ago), then it's not yet history.

To me, it's a salutary reminder of how easily it is to do nothing and turn a blind eye to what is happening.

The Queen Mother was never reconciled with Germany after the First World War and Prince Philip saw action in the Second. That his much elder sisters went along or worse is neither here nor there. Not is it interesting that the Queen's foolish uncle acted as he apparently did with tow young nieces.

The Queen's uncle did have fascist sympathies. He met Hitler and was linked to Oswald Mosley. So I think this a legitimate piece of historical evidence. Granted that's not why the Sun published it though.

A legitimate piece of historical evidence of what, DrDre?

Of the prevalence of anti semitic and fascist opinions in the aristocracy in the inter war years.

I think that it is not the uncle that is being he problem here, and the palace may want to make people believe that the royal family didn't know what was coming, but this uncle visited a concentration camp on his visit to Hitler so... it is difficult to fall for that.

Her husband has also been known to splurt racist jokes that indicate he was sympathetic to the Nazi cause, her grandson dressed as a Nazi for a party, and although I don't think there is much more than stupidity in Harry's past behaviour, I wonder a what time do we stop considering the abysmal behaviour of the royal family a simple "error of judgement"?

Sometimes I think that British monarchy is very much like a spoiled child whose parents (the people) don't plan or want to discipline or make them accountable for their behaviour.

Prevalence? Really?

Prevalent like Oswald Moseley?

Or prevalent like it is a picture that includes a known Nazi sympathiser and members of his family who publicly distanced themselves when the reality of Naziism became apparent.

The latter happened in many families across Europe. Hitler was 'a funny little chap with some odd ideas' led to 'but he is right the Jews have too much money'. But that is a long held opinion, remember Edward I and Edict of Expulsion in 1290? No? Well, it meant that for 500 years no Jewish person was allowed back into England and even them Jewish emancipation took over 100 years to actually achieved.

Similar tales abound worldwide. They are not nice, not comfortable to imagine these days, but such acts and beliefs were not unusual. So it is not unlikely that many MNers great/grandparents had some sympathy with Hitler and the Nazis, initially.

Hindsight is a great educator, but it should not be used to revise history or to mistakenly apply our own mores to people at that time.

That is really low and scraping the bottom of the barrel.

Commander the direct quote of Prince Philip saying he was sympathetic is one of those 'out of context' quotes. As has been pointed out on previous Philip bashing threads he was actually saying that it was easy to see how some people had sympathy, initially, but that those opinions changed as time went on.

My own family would be an example. well one half anyway. My maternal great grandmother told the cautionary tale often over the latter half of her life. As a teenager her father had thought Hitler was right to curb the growth of Jewish business, it was strangling free trade. She believed him, his own business in London had been affected by the growth of a Jewish business nearby. Even 50+ years later she was greatly embarrassed by this and told us all to think for ourselves.

What is Aeroflotgirl? History?

Or being able to look clearly at historical events and understanding that our current social mores would have made no sense back then?

Times change, they are suppose to get better.

And my long post is an example of remembering what has been done so as to avoid repeating such errors and atrocities. Anything else is happy clap revisionism.

I think the Sun is a vile rag. But I think this is a genuine example of something being in the public interest. Of course it's not implying that the queen was a Nazi - she was just a little girl. But it's still a worthwhile piece of history.

I actually think that it's a very short jump from believing you're better than other people because you're an aristocrat / royal to believing you're better than certain others because they're Jewish / Romany / gay / etc. It's two sides of the same coin and I can completely see that the royals would have fallen for Hitler's rhetoric.

It's one of the reasons I think we should get rid of the royal family - I believe everyone is equal. And having a royal family proves they're not.

Thanks for all the book recommendations Baddz

Enjoy :)

Being German has sweet FA to do with it. Lots of Germans were tortured to death opposing the Nazis. Hans and Sophie Scholl Munich White Rose Movement. They looked pretty German to me.

Of course there is a historical debate to be had, as as pp said, lots of aristocrats were sympathisers. But, the Sun has typically chosen the wrong way to go about having that debate. They're fuckers. There are some pretty extreme comments about them in this thread. But, I'm fresh out of sympathy for the bastards.

I was glad to see it published. Of course it means nothing that the Queen at that age was giving a Nazi salute but it serves to remind people of Edward VIII's views and that's no bad thing. They're not like us, they're not committed to democracy particularly or anything other than ensuring their continuance, IMO. Kate and William are a nice sideshow but that's all.

The Queen Mothers brother died at the Battle of Loos.

I doubt she'd be much a fan of the Germans and Nazis after that.