to think 'the sun' is utter scum over the queen's 'nazi salute' ?

[mrsfuzzy]

it might be 'historical significance' but is it really ? the film taken in 1933 shows the royal family doing nazi salutes. the 'salute' was not really known about then as to what it would come to signify and this seems scummy behaviour on behalf of the sun to print it.
everyone now involved is dead, but the queen still has to hear it,
i'm not into royalty but this seems shitty in my book.

Thanks.

I watched the channel 4 documentary about Unity and have been fascinated ever since.

Cheers!

Hons and Rebels is great.

Nancy's. Novels and biographies are very good.
She had a sad life, really.
I find her parents utterly fascinating.
Her mother still thought higher was wonderful, even after her only son was killed fighting the nazis in the war.
I suppose the saddest story is that of unity. Shows what fanaticism can do.

Higher?
Hitler!

That woman is a great book about Wallis Simpson
Very enlightening if not very edifying.

But to this family playing in the garden he was just someone with a funny characteristic that they could copy for the camera.

For a family in their position - no, and the Palace's response now shows that they well know this.

What a non story. It's a film of a family playing in the garden, it's hardly like they're attending a secret rally.

Some members of the aristocracy, and yes, even the Royal Family, had some dodgy political leaning during the pre-war period but let's not forget that when push came to shove the Royal Family served on our side of the war.

For a worse image, this is a group of American schoolchildren in 1942

But if you read the context around it, it immediately becomes less shocking. A ten second film or a photograph doesn't often give any context, and so can be interpreted in so many ways, especially decades after it was taken when people viewing the image/film have knowledge that the people in the image didn't have.

Damn you lot, there's a ton of books on my Amazon wishlist now.

I am amazed that you are so determined to present the royal family as so ignorant.

Be amazed then. This was a family playing in a garden in 1933, not standing on the balcony of Buckingham Palace in 1939.

Sorry mouse :)

IsItStupid I don't agree there. If it was wholly innocent then surely the Royal Family could release the whole film and set in in context? They are not Joe Bloggs and family - in their position it's their duty to be informed.

BTW when Americans salute the flag, how do they do it now?

Have ordered hons and rebels and the house of mitford.

Why the focus on the upper classes and fascism? If you look at the books and newspapers of the twenties and thirties, the amount of casual anti-semitism, racism, support for eugenics, and general admiration for the strong leadership of Mussolini and later Franco and Hitler is incredible. These days it's largely only the more high brow novels that are generally still read, but I am a massive fan of 'golden age' detective fiction, which was probably the most widely read genre in that period, and virtually all the authors betray this casual low level attitude throughout their work, even the most literate ones like Dorothy L Sayers.

That's very true.
The chap who championed eugenics is quite interesting too - sorry his name escapes me for a moment.

I said earlier that it was all classes. And left wing intellectuals like GBS were very drawn to fascism......

alpaca- one of Jill Paton Walsh's Lord Peter follow ins has him trying to repair some diplomatic damage done by Edward ViII

YANBU. For lots of reasons.

1. The Queen was only 7 hardly capable of fully understanding world politics yet

1. It was 1933 no 24 hr news so info took longer to spread

1. It was only 1933 the year Hitler was elected as chancellor. Nobody really knew yet of the horrors to come.

1. Playing about making Nazi salutes in itself does not in itself prove allegiance

1. They were copying what they would have seen in pictures and perhaps news reel. For all we know they could have been ridiculing him.

Annie- if you read the thread you'll find discussion on a of those points.

I said earlier that it was all classes. And left wing intellectuals like GBS were very drawn to fascism......

Interesting article on Shaw and the despots. Lots of contrarianism (from Shaw) in there as well, I think.

Many intellectuals believed that democracy was finished in the 1930s; it was a question of whether fascism or socialism would come out on top.

LaVolcan I believe the current American salute is a hand over your heart whilst facing the flag.

As for the film, I was under the impression that the 17 seconds was the whole film? Was it just a snippet?

I agree that it is their job to be informed but this film didn't seem too bad for 1933, to be honest.

I saw a group of children playing in a garden yesterday with t-shirts wrapped around their heads pretending to be terrorists, with their parents watching and laughing. I was a bit and granted, they're not the royals, but I shrugged it off and continued with my day. It hardly showed that my neighbours were secret IS sympathisers.

Anniesaunt

Points 1 & 2 I agree with.

1. No. People already knew what Hitler and his followers were up to, although they probably didn't realise just how bad it was going to get. Jews started fleeing as soon as he got in.

1. - No, but there are some things that you shouldn't be doing in play.

1. Possibly, but Edward VIII was a known nazi sympathiser. Would they have been ridiculing Hitler in front of him?