To think parents need to start parenting?!

[grumpasaur]

Dear Parents,

I understand that you love your children. I do. More often than not, I love your children too, and am happy to play with them and indulge their childish whims and imaginative fancies.

However, I do not understand why more and more, you are seemingly immune to the noise and disruption your children cause when you allow them to run rampant in predominantly adult spaces.

Kids make noise. I get that. Some kids make noise no matter how much you try to quiet them. However, you will get a significantly increased amount of support and understanding from me if I see you at least TRYING to keeping them quiet- again, in predominantly adult spaces.

When I see you calmly eating your sandwhich whilst your two twins run around the small café, talking loudly on the phone, screaming at each other, stomping their new shoes to show them off, and indeed even BEATING EACH OTHER UP, and I see you do nothing...well, I want to take your children, discipline them for you, and give you a proper telling off for being a shit-fuck of a parent. I want to give you a spanking and tell you to smarten the fuck up.

Parenting is hard. So I hear anyway. I chose not to have children because I do not wish, yet, to have to disrupt my life with the responsibilities of parenting.

May I calmly suggest that you respect my decision not to have kids just as I respect your decision to have yours. I'll help you as much as you need...really, I will, just ask my friends with children.

But seriously. This lazy parenting which impacts not only the way that your children are treated but also the way parents in general are perceived has got to stop. It's ridiculous, indulgent, irresponsible, and annoying as fuck.

Seriously. STOP IT.

Or go to soft play, where your kids can scream all they like and I am sip my coffee in peace, far far away.

Ok so if you have children who are a handful, you're not allowed to 'calmly eat a sandwich'?

That's where I've been going wrong. I'd have lost this baby weight ages ago if I spent all my time shooshing them instead of occasionally pretending I'm someone who is allowed a coffee in Costa or summat.

Once I finish calmly eating my sandwich, I usually take a deep breath and leave the cafe, and get back to my 24/7 parenting.

No more calm sandwich eating.

Wtf is with these threads? There was one yesterday complaining about helicopter parents who spend mealtimes encouraging their children to eat. Now we can't even be calm when we eat

It's not even day one of the holidays and I'm sick of other people's kids! They come into my place of work and are allowed to wreak havoc

Innefectual parenting... Hate it

Wow for a parenting site some of you really hate children.

I think you are bu to assume you know how others should parent- especially as you don't have kids. You're nbu to be annoyed- but that's you're issue.

I have twins. I take them to a local (child friendly) coffee shop. We go once a week between nursery and a toddler class, we would be unable to attend said class (to boost their confidence and build skills) if we didn't nip into said local coffee shop.

The fact I can manage to take them at all is huge to me. They have numerous hidden disabilities, on top of the usual preschooler exuberance. And then of course there's the practical aspect of two of them verses one of me. Luckily they happen to love this coffee shop. They sit for ten minutes or so and eat then play at the random corridor at the back, safely, out of the way of tabels and people carrying hot coffee. They giggle, bounce, sing, dance, shriek, for maybe five minutes then we head off. Occasionally we do this with friends, so there maybe a third or fourth bouncy little kid. Occasionally they make friends with other little ones at other tabels. This is one of the few places my twins feel comfortable, they are extremely sensitive to sensory simulae. Sometimes this bothers them at this much loved coffee shop also. Sometimes one may hide under the table for a while, or switch off the nearest lamp in a fit of panic. Sometimes they get upset and I tell them if they can't manage we will leave. And we do, as I follow through.

Perhaps it is my twins who disturb you. However it maybe your perfume that disturbs my twins, it maybe the sound of your voice or how you clunk then spoon against the coffee cup that sets off a melt down. It may also be how you tut in their direction as my back is turned to pay, they are equaly as over sensitve to the emotional atmosphere. That's the nature of many hidden disabilities, hugely hyper sensitive children with erratic over reactions and no ability to regulate their huge emotions.

Luckily our coffee shop staff are more than happy to welcome my children's noise and caos and smiles and energy. If you are not happy I suggest you use a different coffee shop. I most definitely do not need you to discipline my children. Discipline means to guide- I guide my children by exposing them to a normal environment, by encouraging them to sit and eat, by having realistic expectations of how they will manage and their need to move and make noise. They learn by slowly encountering these situations and having my support to deal with their fears and phobias. Our coffee shop is filled by other parents with noisy children. Some loudly insist their children sit still and remain quiet, the result is often screaming and tantrums. Personally I'd rather my twins squeals of joy, but I appreciate all parents view this differently, and I wouldn't dare judge their approach. My girls will likely face a life time of judgement, hidden disabilities mean outsiders will never appreciate what we go through. I simply don't have it in me to care if my children's excitement disturbs you in a child friendly place. I know the usual response to this, 'oh I'm not talking about disabled kids', well the thing is you don't actually know if you are or not- that's the problem with hidden disabilities. You wont be able to see my children's disabilities, nor mine for that matter, and you won't see the huge amount of parenting I have done to get to the stage where we can leave the house and access normal opportunities like non disabled kids can. So, in the nicest possible way, butt out.

Why the fuck do some people on here seem to think that you can't have an opinion on kids and parenting unless you have your own? It's sick making. And utterly, utterly arrogant and complacent.

I am with you all the way OP. Oh yes and I do have children.

Ooh, I've seen lots of wild children in cafes. I stopped doing things with a friend of mine because her children would run round and round, and mine would not quite understand why they couldn't do the same..
I imagine OP has had a bad day though.

You lot hold her and I'll pull her judge pants out of her backside. Clearly they got stuck up there.

My 9 and 4 year old are delights, I adore the bones of them. But they have gobs like dockers some days and I can hear them from the other end of the garden (some distance) so if they ran about cafe's screeching, I'd fully understand other customers thinking "what a bunch of shatpanks". Fortunately they don't, instead they sit there stuffing their faces with questionable snacks and vastly overpriced drinks. But yeah, too much noise is never a good thing. Pipe down, gobshites.

Also, parents sometimes forget their children's limits; we have friends who insist on taking their DCs out for expensive meals at lovely restaurants, and they act all surprised when it hits 8.30pm and the kids hit psycho mode and it all goes a bit Jeremy Kyle with screams and punches (from the kids, not the parents) and someone invariably knocks over a large glass of wine.

I don't take mine to places they can't handle, nor do I take them at the times I know they'd misbehave. If I did, it would be rude of me to expect other people to put up with their madness.

^Welcome to MN Jo Frost

I agree it's unasseptable...^

Snort! Worra you're my mn crush!

permenantrecord - I think you, and your twins, sound adorable. I don't however or at least hope that you are not the sort of parent that OP is talking about.

We have all endured the excruciating embarrassment of a toddler meltdown, but it is how it is dealt with, as parents, that matters. Ignoring badly behaved children in public is not acceptable. Dealing with a screaming, crying, tantruming child is acceptable. No-one thinks that children should be perfect if they are then they are living in cloud cuckoo land but we all, as a society, should expect parents to discipline their children if they are being badly behaved in public.

I'm another one who never sees this kind of thing. Where do you live OP? Where's this hotspot of feral children and oblivious parents?

Maybe I'm just too busy trying to keep my own two in order to notice.

BTW, good post, permenantrecord.

YANBU. I say this as a parent of a very loud and hyper 7 year old and a 4 month old baby. The 7 year old knows how to behave and what will happen if he doesn't, and that there is a time and a place to scream/shout and run etc, he has done since he was a toddler, and if the baby is kicking off I take her outside/away.

Anybody who says yabu is a special snowflake type of parent ime.

Worra

Zeezeek thank you

Thing is it depends what you class as bad behaviour, I would never ignore hitting, or a melt down, which isn't bad behaviour imo. But I have no problem letting them run about and make lots of happy noises (it can be a huge relief to see them happy), to some this is bad behavior, to me its not. The ops venom very much reads like it could be headed my way.

I like what pp said about how we view children in comparison to european expectations. I think perhaps I should emigrate ; )

I was queuing up in a cafe today and someone's little boy kept hitting me. I kid you not. He would come up to me, give me a little tap and run away again. I looked over at his mother, who gave me an indulgent little smile as if to say 'isn't he cute?'.

Um, no. He isn't.

Great post permanentrecord.

This thread reminds me of a FB viral type thingy I read ages ago - it said something about not judging the mum on her iphone at the park, because maybe that's the only break she has all day. But people insist on judging on a snapshot. And the mum of the twins in the OP, I'm guessing just wanted to eat her fecking sandwich. Because maybe every other meal she eats all week she eats cold and in sections, because she is busy parenting her children.

for you permanentrecord.

YES!!!! Too much lazy parenting!!!!! Alas most parents wouldn't agree with you OP....why are children allowed to run amok in restaurants??? Table manners please???? I could go on and on... But am now going to skulk off as the "children should be allowed to express themselves however they want" brigade are aiming their laser sights at me!!!!!

I think people like the OP (and a scary number of those posting on this thread) want children to behave exactly like little adults.

No, I think kids should be allowed to be kids. You can think that and still expect parents to at least attempt consideration for other people. If my DC are shrieking loudly in a cafe etc I ask them if they could please be a bit quieter so other people can also have conversations.

All children are noisy from time to time. That's fine. I think the issue is when there's no attempt on their parent's part to try to teach them a bit of consideration for others. It's one of the most important things you can teach your kids IMO.

Well these things will happen when you choose to venture out in public.

running around in a coffee shop is bad behaviour and dangerous, people carrying hot drinks in close proximity to small children running around is not a great mix,

I generally find that adults can be equally obnoxious out in public on occasion - it is not the sole reserve of children.

Timefor I totally agree!

Just think it doesn't need to turn into a bunfight. Just everyone should be considerate to everyone else, parent or no parent, child or adult. Not difficult really is it.

OP I have three children and I think YANBU.