AIBU to think self employed people should be exempt from Jury Service?

[Petal02]

Yes, I know everyone should do their civic duty but ….

DH is self-employed, and the winter months are his busiest season. He was originally asked to do Jury Service in November, but requested a deferral on the grounds that two weeks out during his peak season would be a disaster for a sole trader. The ‘compensation for lost earnings’ is just over £60 per day (or £32 if you’re only needed for a half day) for a two week jury service period, which is way, way short of DH’s usual earnings. And whichever time of year he was called, we knew he was going to take a fairly significant hit, financially.

Thankfully a deferral was granted, and he was given a revised start date of Monday 6 July.

So ……. DH obviously didn’t accept any work for the period w/c 6 July or w/c 13 July (even though he planned to try and fit a few small jobs in). On the afternoon of Friday 3 July he got a phone call saying he wouldn’t be needed on Monday 6th, and that he was to phone up after 5pm on Monday 6th, to see if he would be needed for Tuesday 7th. The Court Officer went on to say that it was likely he may not have to attend at all, but he had to stay on standby for the two week period, phoning up after 5pm each day, to enquire about the following day. Which is just a joke for a self-employed person.

As it turned out, when he phoned on Monday night, he was then stood down for his entire period of jury service. But in the meantime he’d turned down a lot of work, and even though he’s now able to accept jobs again for the coming fortnight, we’ve made quite a loss and I’m really not happy.

I don’t think the self-employed should have to do this. DH had to work really hard to pull a small business through the recession, and jury service has been unhelpful.

I think its extremely difficult. When you are self employed you are generally only very small and don't have a back up plan that can account for you being out of the business for more than a long weekend. We are SE and I got the call and just sent back a deferment request - as I had actually booked a week away with DD for part of school holidays - so not only am I SE but also do all childcare cover etc as well. My issue is that if I know where and when then I can plan but even a month isn't really enough for me to cover a two week period. Also the way it is handled and the lack of flexibility doesn't do it any favours. I think they need a new way of approaching this as it just doesn't work for most people. I also think it should be something employers can claim back if they pay their staff - and for SE a fair rate (say average salary) should be set and paid. If they have fewer people changing and deferring it will cost less to run, if there are less complex claiming procedures it will cost less and if they could organise themselves in court better then that would end up reducing costs as well - crazy systems in there at the moment

Why comment you were met with swearing when you think it's fine to swear back, if it's that offensive to you?

Why comment on me at all when you didn't read anything I posted?

Yep, you don't read the thread and come out with shite, you risk sounding thick. Not everyone has savings either, btw.

I obviously did read what you wrote on your 17:39 post because I was responding to your suggestion that "Plumbers might have the odd regular client but usually have new clients, writers can write in the evening in some cases. Child minders - I'm sure the parents would have to take a holiday then - that or change child minder which if their child is happy they're unlikely to do. It depends on the circumstances" which I thought was a bit -worthy

I didn't say swearing was offensive - I just thought it was unecessecarily aggressive and I FFSed back to make that point

And when you continually call somesome thick, you risk sounding horrible

Anyway, I am only winding myself up replying to you and I have to get ready to go out to dinner with a customer. Have a nice evening

Don't underestimate how draining it is being on court all day. Going home and then trying to catch up on all the work you'd missed during the day wouldn't be easy.

I would suffer massive financial loss (I'm a lawyer) and so would pay the fine.

AHEM
Perhaps we could just leave the FFS's out....

"in court" not "on court" - that's different and without doubt more tiring.

wow you read one post of mine

I thought you were leaving the thread and me to it?

It's mumsnet, FFS is standard currency for people that are commenting through their arse not having read previous threads Hardly the worst that could be said. It was irritation at your stupid comment, not having read anything! Can't believe it's the worst thing that's ever been said to you on online "fora" as you put it.

Yes, agree, don't have time to be dealing with stupid people that think they know it all not having RTFT and think they can pass comment and be taken seriously.

Why Olivia? is swearing banned now?

Sorry TOOM

Can we also leave the accusations of thickness out too please?

And yes I do realise that this makes me sound like Kevin Kline in a Fish Called Wanda saying

Self employed people should be able to show proof of average earnings and get paid that.

Annie I think you need to calm down, you keep misinterpreting/misunderstanding what Bit is saying.
Chill.

Bit I don't know you so don't have anything else to work on regarding your intelligence, unfortunately for you. As said before don't comment unless you know what's going on. It's irritating and boring for people to have to keep repeating themselves. No idea what TOOM means - please don't feel you have to explain, I'm not that bothered.

I'm perfectly calm Just get a bit irritated by stupidity as most do.

Fora is the plural or forum isn't it? I'm doubting msyelf now

And yes, I'm supposed to be gone now! I haven't got time to wash my hair now! :D

TOOM is TheOnlyOliviaMumsnet

I really am going now to spray blummin dry shampoo on my hair!

Sorry I find some of those plurals a bit pretentious, I'd have gone for forums , but you're probably right.

Enjoy your meal. Don't forget to read the menu Joke!

Self employed people should be able to show proof of average earnings and get paid that.

It's not the earnings for the period that you lose that is the issue, it is the loss of customers (and reputation, and the cash flow issues which mean your suppliers ditch you, and the going overdrawn at the bank...)

I don't think that doing their civic duty should cost people money tbh. Genuine costs should be refunded. And the whole thing is so poorly managed - everyone who is eligible to be called should be able to select a 2 week period where we would be available for jury service and get called only during those two weeks. I dont think it would be difficult to administer.

OP, check your house insurance. Ours (natwest) reimburses lost earnings if you cannot get costs covered by the court or an employer.

I thought if I put forums I'd be accused of being thick

I put fora and I'm pretentious.

Can't win can I?

I intend just to read the top starter, the last pudding and say "FFS this menu is crap". That should do it!

My business is one of only 5 like it in the UK. If my DH were not to go out there to work then we know that one of the other companies will leap in and snatch the work away and we wouldn't get it back. He's on 24/7 callout so trying to fit it in after 3pm isn't going to work. It's in the aviation industry and I'm afraid that you can't guarantee when an aircraft if going to end up with damage that needs sorting. There is also no "slack period" of the year that jury duty could be deferred to. In the summer it's the summer flying programme, and in the winter it's the winter maintenance programme.

I think that what some people need to appreciate is that not everyone has regular working hours or a regular type of job.

And loss of earnings is just part of it. It's the loss of customers/clients that bothers me more. I'd rather pay the fine.

In my defence (and it does feel like I'm defending myself here) I personally would like to do jury service. It's something that I've always found interesting and I could fit it in with my work (office) which I could do in the evening afterwards. But DH couldn't, because unfortunately airlines will not wait for the jury to be out in order to fly.

I'd like to do it, but I can't afford to lose potentially £5,000 for 2 weeks or more after that from the knock-on effect. And no that's not bad planning. You can't comment on people's outgoings. That's just the way it is for me right now. In a couple of years it might be different.

Lurkinghusband-Sainsburys running out of naice ham is inconvenient. Losing 2 weeks wages is a catastrophe.

No, being caught up in a terrorist attack and having your legs blown off is a catastrophe. Being given a terminal diagnosis is a catastrophe. Losing a close family member in a car crash is a catastrophe. Losing 2 weeks money is annoying. It's not a catastrophe.

No not all employers pay for jury service.