AIBU to think self employed people should be exempt from Jury Service?

[Petal02]

Yes, I know everyone should do their civic duty but ….

DH is self-employed, and the winter months are his busiest season. He was originally asked to do Jury Service in November, but requested a deferral on the grounds that two weeks out during his peak season would be a disaster for a sole trader. The ‘compensation for lost earnings’ is just over £60 per day (or £32 if you’re only needed for a half day) for a two week jury service period, which is way, way short of DH’s usual earnings. And whichever time of year he was called, we knew he was going to take a fairly significant hit, financially.

Thankfully a deferral was granted, and he was given a revised start date of Monday 6 July.

So ……. DH obviously didn’t accept any work for the period w/c 6 July or w/c 13 July (even though he planned to try and fit a few small jobs in). On the afternoon of Friday 3 July he got a phone call saying he wouldn’t be needed on Monday 6th, and that he was to phone up after 5pm on Monday 6th, to see if he would be needed for Tuesday 7th. The Court Officer went on to say that it was likely he may not have to attend at all, but he had to stay on standby for the two week period, phoning up after 5pm each day, to enquire about the following day. Which is just a joke for a self-employed person.

As it turned out, when he phoned on Monday night, he was then stood down for his entire period of jury service. But in the meantime he’d turned down a lot of work, and even though he’s now able to accept jobs again for the coming fortnight, we’ve made quite a loss and I’m really not happy.

I don’t think the self-employed should have to do this. DH had to work really hard to pull a small business through the recession, and jury service has been unhelpful.

In that case girlandboy, if you could prove it, your DH would be exempt. They are not going to force people into jury service if 2 weeks off work means they will lose their livelihood forever. I imagine the number of people that is true for is fairly small.

girlandboy yes but at some point in the future one or both of you will need to take time off. It's unlikely that it will happen anytime very soon. Not really worth worrying about.

When you have employees it's worth remembering this too.

As three says if that's the case and it happens next week (hopefully not) there is something in place.

The ops dh deferred his to a quiet time of year

I sincerely hope so. I worry enough about the business as it is. Some people are of the opinion that we're "lucky" to run a business, but it was far less worrying when we were employed by someone else.

They are not going to force people into jury service if 2 weeks off work means they will lose their livelihood forever

Why not ? Terminally ill people have to work ? When did the state start being so nice ? I missed that memo.

My husband is also a one man band in a very niche market. Jury service would be a pain and would cause us to lose income but it wouldn't cause him to lose the business. When you're self employed you have to budget for weeks off for any number of reasons - holidays, illness, injury, bereavement etc. Jury service is a civic duty but sadly duty doesn't count for much with a lot of people any more.

It's an inconvenience for many, but a vital duty. However, I'd like to think that the sole trader who's the only breadwinner in their family would be excused. Same with the pensioner who looks after their severely disabled spouse, or the single parent with minimal support. Surely there are plenty of people who'd have no problems, or surmountable problems. I'm one of them, so are lots of my friends, and my parents. I can't believe that the pool is so small.

YANBU. I'd lose £1,500 minimum a week up to a potential £2,500. Single parent so no other income coming in. More importantly than that I'd lose my clients as they'd go elsewhere. I can only take time off to suit them, not to suit me and with more than one client it's very difficult - had about 5 days off in total last year. I'd be happy to do it otherwise. I'd have to argue my case with the courts for some kind of exemption, which I've heard is possible.

DH was seriously considering not attending, and risking the £1000 fine. It would be cheaper than the loss of earnings, not to mention the potential loss to future business by turning down new customers during the two week jury service period.

I didn't encourage this - as much as I could see his point, I was worried they could make an example out of him, and we'd find out he was the first person to receive a short custodial sentence for going AWOL!

DH was seriously considering not attending, and risking the £1000 fine. It would be cheaper than the loss of earnings, not to mention the potential loss to future business by turning down new customers during the two week jury service period.

My understanding from a court officer is that this a risk worth taking.

..... but if DH ever gets another 'invitation' to jury service, he plans to mistakenly tick a wrong box in relation to his mental health (and that was a suggestion from a solicitor) !!!

Everyone is indispensable at their workplace, everyone will have a good reason not to do it. Tough shit. If you ever end up in court for something you didn't do, just pray that a representative section of society are prepared to put their oh-so-important lives on hold for two weeks so you can have a fair trial.
Your DH can offset loss of earnings against his tax bill and, as a SE person taking risks, should really be planning for this and claiming all the tax breaks he can.

Siarie
Jury service insurance maximums wouldn't cover the amount we would lose if my DH had to do jury service

If your husband is earning over £500 a day, then I dare say you could manage a one off stint on jury duty. Or you haven't planned very well.

2 weeks jury service is one thing but what about trials that go on for months and months?

I couldn't afford to take that loss - and nothing against planning very well. You don't know people's financial circumstances - what their outgoings are - so can't comment on everyone like that. This year losing two weeks would put me into debt. In future years perhaps not but I still couldn't take the potential loss of clients going elsewhere and having to build that back up.

There are loads of countries that don't have jury service. Most of the Middle East, China, North Korea, many African dictatorships, Russia and associated countries, plus many others. All you moaners should go and live in one of those.

Of course, should you be accused of anything, you won't get a trial by jury either, but when you're rotting in a filthy jail for something you didn't do, you can take comfort from the fact that no one was inconvenienced.

Anything over 1 week and I would lose my business and potentially my house.
Given that, if I ever have to do it my focus will be on getting the case with over as quickly as possible so it's probably better for the defendant that I don't do it

TTWK, there's plenty that can do jury service, it's just some have perfectly valid reasons not to. Doesn't mean the whole system is going to fall apart just because you're one of them and would have to seek an exemption! It's not that big a deal. Doesn't mean if you need to seek an exemption you don't support and believe in the jury service system. For many it's an inconvenience but not so much that their livelihoods are threatened, or care of a vulnerable person is affected. Some perspective please.

Of course, should you be accused of anything, you won't get a trial by jury either, but when you're rotting in a filthy jail for something you didn't do, you can take comfort from the fact that no one was inconvenienced.

A tad simple istic ?

The problem with the existing system is that it patently doesn't deliver a jury of your peers. It delivers a weird subset of society, which may -or may not - reflect society as a whole. As previously stated, less able citizens are excluded in some courts. And I suspect there are readers who might consider your use of the word "inconvenienced" as somewhat goady. Especially since several posters have pointed out how difficult things could be if they were required to do jury service. Sainsburys running out of naice ham is inconvenient. Losing 2 weeks wages is a catastrophe.

You can insure against jury service (cost also tax deductible) and if a week off work means your business is going under then you need a more robust model. What would you do if you were sick?
I appreciate that it is hard but - come on - nothing could be harder than losing your liberty (or letting some git off scot free) because it was 'difficult'.

Five years ago I enquired about insurance - £300 a month. Laughable. No point in taking it out. It's more than "difficult" - for some there might not be enough for the mortgage to get paid that month, possibly including mine. And as I keep saying it's not just those 2 weeks, I'd lose clients. The knock-on effect would last a lot longer than losing two weeks' money.

Sickness is one of the reasons a lot of self-employed people can't take time off for things like jury service - we're trying to protect ourselves financially for things going tits up. If I get long-term sick I'm basically fucked. If I had to take 2 weeks for jury service then got really sick later in the year then I don't the business could recover from that for possibly 6 months to a year, if I'm lucky enough to replace clients. I can't take that risk. There's plenty that can do it and once I retire or if were to ever go back to full time employment I'd be happy to. If it happened now I'd be requesting an exemption.