to think having kids isn't all it is cracked up to be?

[gummo]

I don't have children yet and am trying to decide if it is right for me. I have the added issue of a genetic problem if I do have decide to try which would require some intervention which is off putting enough but I have found after the past few years really paying attention to friends and family who are parents that it just doesn't look quite as joyful as it is made out to be.

It is very difficult to get a straight answer on this as I don't think you can give one. It is pretty impossible to say I love kids but I prefered my life before and wish they had never been born because even though people might have liked life before they had kids they could never wish their kids had not been born.

The only thing I can relate this too personally is that in my early 20's I started on a career which was dangerous and took me away from home for long stretches, my husband hated me being away and it caused horrible problems for us, in the end I had to choose between my career and my husband and I choose my husband because I love him and couldn't imagine a life without him. Perhaps if I had had the choice between love and the career I wanted prior to falling in love with my husband I would have chose the career.

If I had a child I am sure I would love it and give my all to that child but I also think that child would alter every part of my life my relationship with my husband, my new career only in its early stages, my freedom, my priorities and even the way I think would shift and I don't know if I want it too. It just feels like a very final choice to make and very limiting.

People say a lot of wonderful things about having kids but it isn't easy to see in their lives. Money, time, identity is all eaten up by children and it is impossible to do right either you stay home to look after them and are a parasite in the eyes of some or you work and neglect them in the eyes of others. So many I know have kids but only see them a few hours a day some even less if they are shipped out to grandparents.

I had a great childhoon and love my parents but I don't really feel any huge desire to have my own, I don't understand that, how it feels but I worry I am just missing something and one day I will realise too late what I have missed?

I can see how having family as you get older is a comfort for many but is that a reason to sacrifice my life now? Sometimes I feel that perhaps I am just not a people person and children are just little people. I even found the cat I had as a child a bit clingy.

I just don't get what other people see in it, and I wish I did.

Hi OP, a wide range of answers here as you expected! I hear you on the ambivalence. Its not just as simple as 'don't have them then'. I was pretty adamant that I didn't want any, until the last few years when suddenly it all became much more complex and I have absolutely agonised over the decision. I don't know how much is biological - I suspect its mostly down to being at that time of life (35) where it feels like virtually all my peers are in the baby bubble or at least trying to be. I'm moving towards feeling very peaceful about the decision not to have children but it has definitely involved grieving the loss of the family I could have had, and that part of me wanted badly.
Its an incredibly complex and highly personal decision, unless you're one of those women who has always known for sure one way or the other. If it helps, there's a great online private Google+ community called Gateway Women - its for women who don't have children, for all sorts of reasons. There are women on there who are ambivalent about the whole thing, like you and me. I've found it very supportive.

I have never wanted children and am now pretty much beyond the point of being able to change my mind. I have an amazing DP who has also never wanted kids. Possibly in 10 years' time I'll suddenly regret it but I honestly can't see that happening. Our life is brilliant, we have loads of fun together, we're free to spend time on our careers, travel, see friends etc. and I love knowing that when we're old that freedom won't be curtailed by the wish/obligation to spend time with grandchildren. The prospect of a lonely old age bothers me slightly but I'm fairly confident that the law will have changed by then to allow one to opt out if one wishes.

What a fascinating thread. I have only just joined MN and was expecting it to be full of mothers crowing about how amazing motherhood is and sharing recipes for the perfect flapjack. It is clearly much more interesting and honest than that.

I am not sure my experience counts for much, as I'm only two months in! All I would say is that the decision to have children is such a personal one that I wonder whether there is really any advice that anyone can usefully give you OP. I think you know in your heart whether you want children or not. I sense you do not. And that is absolutely fine.

Motherhood is amazing in terms of the overwhelming love you have for your children.

However, the day to day drudgery of looking after them, cooking, cleaning, washing, school runs, cost etc etc is not so amazing!

The love I feel for my DD is huge, an unstoppable force, and a different type of love to anything I've felt before.

However, being a parent is one long sacrifice. The lack of sleep is a killer (DD only slept through reliably at 4), my relationship with DP will never be the spontaneous joyful entity it was, there are endless occasions where you have to prioritise what a child wants to do over what you want to do (no more holidays to anywhere you'd actually want to go). An awful lot of it is a bit shit, to be honest.

Are you interested in other people's kids? I wasn't, and am still not.

duploden - "I do think it's silly when I read posts that talk about having children being ordinary, mundane or boring though. Of course it is, at times. So is everything."

Yes but its acceptable to say that work/holiday/party/whatever was dull or tedious. But less acceptable to say that about your kids.

I wonder how many of us who have posted less than positively on here would feel free to air the same views at a playdate .

I always wanted children but never felt this strong "must do it asap" biological urge. Never fussed over other folks babies either.
So we carried on partying and travelling for years. Then when we started trying it looked like it was never going to happen and that's when I realised I wanted them more than I had thought.

Now got 2 teens and it's been brilliant raising 2 lovely and very different DC. The journey we have all been on and how close we are as a family is amazing.

they all seem shattered, miserable and unfulfilled in areas outside parenthood

I'm not, but I'm not offended at this! I am a LP to one child and have a fulfilling career. I don't get enough sleep but that's my insomnia not my child's fault.
I would say - I miss a lot of things about my pre-child life. I'm limited in what I can do and what I am motivated to do. I'm fairly broke. Having relationships is tricky. There are drawbacks to being a parent of course.
I wouldn't change it because the joy and happiness I get from my child is like nothing else.
If you don't want kids that's completely fine. You shouldn't have one unless you really want one! That's a recipe for disaster all round.

It changes your life, that's fire sure.

I only have one and for the first two years I was a complete basket case. Didn't know what I was doing, felt totally out of my depth and struggled daily. Relationship changed, life changed etc etc....

However, overall I would say it was worth it as I have had some lovely moments with my now much older "little" girl!

It is a life changer and relationship changer though in my opinion.

I have to say most people I know are pretty honest about it. I don't think anyone might say 'I would take it or leave it' but there's a lot of talk about the tedium. I think there are other areas like this in life too, like if you are involved in a sought after social scene or are travelling, you are supposed to be full of buzz about how amazing it all is. I am Irish and I think mostly people see it as tough work having kids rather than endless flowers and hearts and rainbows. If anything it can be tough here to be positive apart from a cursory "well at least he's healthy, thank God". Sometimes I wish it were a bit lighter to be truthful!

things that used to seem important like making art or nights out and so on now seem trivial

Not at all! You just accept that you can't really do it like you used to, and deal with it
It's not that parenting is this holy calling that makes everything else pale into insignificance, it's just that it becomes the priority for your time, energy and emotions and other things by necessity come lower down.

We don't have children and don't plan to have children. In many ways it is a lifestyle thing - we like our lives and we like the freedom we have achieved, and this would be compromised by children. Neither of us have enough of a drive to reproduce that is overrides this. Being pregnant scares the daylights out of me, and I'd be terrified about the effects on my body and my ability to do what I do afterwards.

Is it an easy choice? No - you are expected to defend your decision a lot. My (male) partner gets more questions about it than I do, probably because he seems more "parental" than I do. We are both in our mid 30s, and the questions does arise a lot. I deflect it.

Every once in a while I wonder about whether I am really fulfilled without a child, and how life will be when we are old. I'll never feel the love of a child for me as a parent. But I can't say that it really bothers me all that much. If I fell pregnant tomorrow, it wouldn't be a hard decision not to have it. I'd think about it, but I truly doubt I'd change my mind.

Million, I can't be that unusual in having lots of women in my life who are very frank about the glories and mundanities of motherhood - and two SAH fathers who are equally candid...? I certainly don't find Mn the only place in which I hear the downsides of having children.

The issue about deciding whether or not to have a child is that it cant be an intellectual decision alone - you can do all the research, figure out the financial and career impact on your life, borrow a friend's child for a week, even be a childminder with all the skills etc etc, but it fundamentally can't tell you what having a child of your own is actually like.

And looking at the life of someone who has children from the outside bears little resemblance to what their life is like to them. Often it looks like pure drudgery and sacrifice when the reality is much more complicated - I am the only one of four siblings to have children, and I know both my sisters (childless by choice, and living in a different country) feel sorry for me, and think I'm a lesser person since I had my son. Which isn't my experience.

Also, I think having children purely because you want grandchildren is a mad gamble. My parents had four children in their 20s, those four children grew up to live in far-flung bits of the world, and only one (me) had one child aged 40 - and we live in a different country.

Children ? How ordinary. How boring. How draining. How totally life limiting. Just ugh

I find it intriguing the amount of spite that mothers have for those women who made a choice not to have children. What's the matter, love, not as easy or fulfilling as the brochure said it would be?

You're the only one being spiteful here. Bore off.

just everyone I know with them says how wonderful it is etc but they all seem shattered, miserable and unfulfilled in areas outside parenthood, especially the women.

Really? I know lots of women with kids who have hobbies and seem to have a great life with dinner parties every week if Facebook is to be believed

But I do see a lady locally with 4 kids and have to say she does look exhausted and frazzled. Maybe stop at one kid if you have one?

Nothing wrong with being child-free either. It's not like we have a problem with a diminishing population...

Ultra, I hear you on the intrusive questions. I had my son at 40, and hadn't planned to have a child until just before we conceived, so I had a good two decades of it. I'm still the same person I was, and I still don't think that having a child us any kind of 'natural' or inevitable decision, and I still feel very much on the side of the childfree person being questioned.

It's mad as well as annoying, isn't it? Choosing not to have children is hardly some kind of incredibly niche decision, like voluntarily cutting off your own arms, or going to live with a wolf pack...

I've re-read the thread and your posts seem to have a very 'fixed' view of motherhood - you comment about criticism for being a SAHM or a WOHM, assume that you would be the primary carer and have to pay all childcare costs, and assume that you'd give everything else in your life (your art, a social life) up when you have a child. BTW, do you think fathers would also give all other interests up, or just mothers?

The comment in your OP about 'palming off to grandparents' could also be seen as quite nasty. Lots of parents work and have their children in childcare/ looked after by family members. It might be useful to consider why you have these preconceptions about being a mother - the way you were brought up, the people you know who are parents? I know I've been very influenced by the way my older siblings parent, though with a few things I've decided I won't do what they've done (we'll see how long that lasts...).

I went from not wanting children in my 20s to being deperate for children in my 30s, for no logical reason - I just wanted a baby. It took a few years for me to get pregnant, and my daughter is almost three months old now. It is hard work (even though she's a very placid baby and sleeps well) and it is a huge shift in our lives to the focus being mainly on her instead of just the two of us. I still feel like the 'old me' and still have the same interests so far - being a mother is just another layer on top of my existing self. I love her, but didn't feel that huge rush of love other people have mentioned. If she's asleep and I'm focused on something else I can forget she's there for a few minutes!

DH and I have always had a very equal relationship and he's a very hands-on dad - we're taking shared parental leave so he'll have two months at home with the baby. I wouldn't have wanted to become a parent with someone who doesn't do his share. What is your relationship with your partner like now - do you split all household stuff equally or does it all fall to you? Babies seem to create a lot of extra work with less time to do it in, and as the person at home I am doing more at the moment - I'm not quite sure how I feel about that. You could argue that since you've already made one sacrifice for him, he should be the one who steps back from his career for the baby so you can continue your work.

Ultimately, I think it's such a big change that you have to really want to do it. So far I'm glad we did

I even found the cat I had as a child a bit clingy.

This bit of your post made me laugh op! Don't do it. Don't just have kids because you might one day want to have grandchildren or could live to regret it. Both could turn out to be rubbish.

Having a child is all consuming. Ask any parent with an ill child. Even if you keep your career etc stuff changes. And it sounds like your quite happy how you are. It sounds like you're at an exciting point in your career, it's not a deal breaker with your partner, you found the cat a bit clingy....

I'm a SAHM with ds who is 18 months and I'm 39 weeks with number 2. I love it but it's hard and does involve sacrifice.

Definitely don't have kids for the grandchildren. That is a huge gamble, and if you are really focussed on grandchildren it will put a lot of pressure on your children and your relationship with them. Also don't assume that your children will be there to care for you in old age. It doesn't always work like that - people move far away, are very busy, etc.

Re childcare - unless you are pressed for money (and of course so many are these days) try to avoid doing the income v childcare costs. If you are working to pay for childcare, this makes sense, but if you are working for personal fulfilment then it doesn't matter if you get less than you pay out - unless this means your overall family income is insufficient, which of course may be the case.

From what you have said, it sounds like you regret losing your career more than not having children, so I would only consider the children if you can find a way to make them compatible with your career. Good luck!

Sorry, should read 'you would regret losing your career ...'

OP there are no simple answers and it was not a daft question.

DH and I made the very difficult decision not to have children due to problems with my mental health. I've been so much happier since making the decision but sometimes feel like I'm missing out. I love children but could not be a proper mum

I think you will regret not having children particularly when you and dh are retired and all those exhausted friends are having their children over and then their grandchildren and you just have your dh.

Children are an investment in every sense of the word. You don't have to have them - go on fantastic holidays and retire early instead. But just when you and dh are winding down, your friends' investments are bearing fruit and their life journey goes on through their family and grows in richness.

I don't really care about children and not the broody sort. When I met dh, I could take it or leave it as far as children are concerned. I had dcs because dh wanted them. I am still not particularly maternal and I have not become addled in my brain just because I have had children. Looking at it with quite a cold lens, having children made me understand and value the circle of life.

And I also have a good career - not the stellar one I could have had without children - but a good solid career which took me longer to build up but which I enjoy and am proud of. And I also have children and a family which I am proud of. They are not mutually exclusive. Your art career does not have to happen right away. You can still make space for a child or two along the way. Life is long. There is no need to be in such a hurry with your career. Nurture richness in the tapestry of your life.