to think having kids isn't all it is cracked up to be?

[gummo]

I don't have children yet and am trying to decide if it is right for me. I have the added issue of a genetic problem if I do have decide to try which would require some intervention which is off putting enough but I have found after the past few years really paying attention to friends and family who are parents that it just doesn't look quite as joyful as it is made out to be.

It is very difficult to get a straight answer on this as I don't think you can give one. It is pretty impossible to say I love kids but I prefered my life before and wish they had never been born because even though people might have liked life before they had kids they could never wish their kids had not been born.

The only thing I can relate this too personally is that in my early 20's I started on a career which was dangerous and took me away from home for long stretches, my husband hated me being away and it caused horrible problems for us, in the end I had to choose between my career and my husband and I choose my husband because I love him and couldn't imagine a life without him. Perhaps if I had had the choice between love and the career I wanted prior to falling in love with my husband I would have chose the career.

If I had a child I am sure I would love it and give my all to that child but I also think that child would alter every part of my life my relationship with my husband, my new career only in its early stages, my freedom, my priorities and even the way I think would shift and I don't know if I want it too. It just feels like a very final choice to make and very limiting.

People say a lot of wonderful things about having kids but it isn't easy to see in their lives. Money, time, identity is all eaten up by children and it is impossible to do right either you stay home to look after them and are a parasite in the eyes of some or you work and neglect them in the eyes of others. So many I know have kids but only see them a few hours a day some even less if they are shipped out to grandparents.

I had a great childhoon and love my parents but I don't really feel any huge desire to have my own, I don't understand that, how it feels but I worry I am just missing something and one day I will realise too late what I have missed?

I can see how having family as you get older is a comfort for many but is that a reason to sacrifice my life now? Sometimes I feel that perhaps I am just not a people person and children are just little people. I even found the cat I had as a child a bit clingy.

I just don't get what other people see in it, and I wish I did.

To be honest, having a baby (as a female with all the pregnancy/birth hormones, at least) is a lot like the ending of 1984 - you do change your priorities and the way you think, but also, you don't care at all because you are inside your new set of priorities and thoughts and happy to be there.

I was then going to write about another 1000 words but actually, that sums it up.

BestZebbie, yes I do agree with you. I re-read that recently myself and I totally see what you mean.

One point is that, once you have a child, both you and your DH need that child to be cared for during working hours in order to work. Not just you. He cannot go to work if there is no-one to take care of the child.

There are many ways to arrange childcare. But crucially, think about that care being paid for out of your joint income, not yours. Consider the implications of paying half each, or paying proportionally to your incomes.

Yes, looking at it as joint, as a family, rather than half each, as two single parents, means that the marginal difference is often related to the income of the lower-earning person, who is also most likely to be the one volunteering to give up work to offer care.

But, if working is important to you and your DH supports your needs, fulfillment and career development, it's perfectly reasonable for him to cover most of the cost of childcare to help you get your career underway, if that is at all affordable to you as a family.

Even if you take a 'half and half' view, it would be fine for you to use the (half) time when your DH is paying for the childcare necessary to allow him to work, to work yourself.

Maybe talk to your DH about this. It might be revealing, or helpful.

The first part of that could have been written by me !

I don't have children because I don't want children. It's that simple. My husband is of the same mind and had his vasectomy five years ago.

Children ? How ordinary. How boring. How draining. How totally life limiting. Just ugh.

I find it intriguing the amount of spite that mothers have for those women who made a choice not to have children. What's the matter, love, not as easy or fulfilling as the brochure said it would be ?

Well, I can tell you that I love being a mum and that it is without a doubt the most meaningful, challenging, rewarding thing I have done or will ever do - but I can't tell you whether you will love being a mum.

If you don't see the point in having children and don't have any great desire to have them then don't. I would not have chosen not to have children. But when I was a teenager I couldn't think why anybody could possibly want a baby. So attitudes can change.

Lottie, perhaps that would be a good way of looking at it from a money and childcare pov. I have to stress I do not make much money at all at present and it is very patchy but improving I think in about 3 or 4 years if things go well it might be ok, not loads of money but viable. I worked for years in a job I hated after giving up my first career to have the money to go back to study at art school but I still have a bit of student debt.

Never realised I would get old so quickly!

Toast I know that spite does exist, but I don't think it's been expressed here. Thankfully this thread has been about respect for all choices.

I am not sure I think Mothers have been spiteful about me not having children not personally but I do get a kind of "oh you poor thing" vibe at times which is annoying even though I am sure they are well intentioned.

OP, this question comes up on here all the time - do a search and you'll find threads with a wide variety of candid responses.

I had my son at 40, having not planned on having children at all, with a DH who was on the fence - we decided on a whim to go for it, and conceived immediately. He's now three, and wonderful, and I adore him, but I don't find motherhood easy, and it's very all-consuming for someone who is very work-focused. I can easily see that I could easily have been perfectly, but differently, happy without a child.

But I don't think that ambivalence suggests you should rule out motherhood. I was ambivalent. I had no burning desire to do it. It costs me. But I'm a good mother.

And do let go of the cliche of 'nature's way'. I'm a writer, for whom work remains hugely important, maybe more so than before my son was born, and my female friends who are writers have been more prolific, if anything, since having children. Nature doesn't 'take over' - you will be the same person, unless you choose otherwise.

The thing you need to ask yourself is why you are assuming you would be the primary carer as you don't earn enough to cover fulltime childcare - childcare is a joint expense if you are having a child with your partner. Before having a child, work out a detailed finances/childcare arrangement with your partner so that you can continue to work. It's not either/or.

Btw, I've always had a sense of wanting children, I'm delighted to have one and do really enjoy spending lots of time with her. I am still 'myself' though, too.

I've always been a bit individualistic I suppose, with some ambition, not much of a people-pleaser. I still do things that fulfill and develop me, though inevitably within limited time these days - but I prioritise having some time for such things. I suspect the key elements are; that (while being quite nice really, mostly) I am at least a selfish as DP and just as willing (perhaps more so) to assert my needs and wants within our relationship; he is really interested in our child too and doesn't see her as 'my project' and; we have a fairly equal relationship, well established before parenthood.

Roughly, the 'time for me / my work' is taken from DP and from time together with him, not from time with dd. The 'equal leisure time' concept is key.

I suspect (and often see here and in real life) that as such, we are not typical but not so very unusual either.

I'd suggest maybe children wouldnt be a good idea for you.

it is hard work, (different to working, but not necessarily harder depending on what you do etc) you do not know what you are going to get, they worry you terribly, they bleed and vomit, you may end up covered in poo, vomit, snot, wee, blood. or getting dog shit off small children/stuff they get ill and traumatise you, they break bones, get themselves trapped in things, or up things, bloody climbing fames or get things trapped n themselves, why the feck does putting a pea up your nose seem like a good idea? you spend a considerable amount of time trying to prevent them killing themselves, there are a myriad of sleepless nights, there is the tedium of school runs and washing etc, the expense, the destruction of the body, (everything went saggy and south) life is dictated by school term times...

they bite, head butt, kick, trample, elbow, fall on, scratch and share their germs with you. synchronised vomitting anyone? they also swear and call you names. like poo-poo head, but I gather it gets worse as a teenager they break your stuff, decorate your house with things you would rather not, take your stuff, hide your stuff, drop money through the fecking floor boards, and invade your space with all thier stuff...

but by god are they worth it. not that one remembers that necessarily when you are gong through the worst experiences... oh no

different people like different things. having or not having children by choice are both equally valid options and it depends on your personaity and circumstances. for goodness sake do not have them merely because society expects it if it is not right for you.

Zebbie

To be honest, having a baby (as a female with all the pregnancy/birth hormones, at least) is a lot like the ending of 1984 - you do change your priorities and the way you think, but also, you don't care at all because you are inside your new set of priorities and thoughts and happy to be there.

With the greatest respect for your experience, that wasn't how it was for me at all. I changed my priorities because I had two small babies who needed looking after, end of story. I didn't enjoy it at all but it was necessary. Tbh the whole rhetoric around how parenthood motherhood changes you completely as a person, I find it a bit worrying, as it seems to imply the reason why people (should) care well for their children is because they're motivated to by feelings of love. I worry that it leaves little space for children to be unlovable/unattractive and be loved, despite all that. I'm not saying you're like this by the way not at all, I'm just having my rant.

Honestly, I could take or leave having kids. Dh really wanted kids so we had them. If I had been with someone that didn't want them I would have been ok too.

That said, I wouldn't be without them. I adore my kids. But they hard work. I struggle with the fact that I get no time to be alone. I love being alone, but when they are young it's not option.

I have never given up my career Andy and dh have always been able to work around eachother to ensure this. We now own our own business and work from home. Child care and house work is defintley 50:50 in our house. DH knows I wouldnt accept doing the majority and he would never expect it.

If I could start over I would have them again. I also know I wouldn't be who I am today without them. Kids teach you as much as you teach them. I quite like who I am now and I have them, in part, to thank for that

There are lots of things in life that aren't all they're cracked up to be. Lots of aspects of life that aren't perpetually joyful too, but thats the nature of life. Its not all sunshine. Mostly we just get on and deal with it. If you don't want children then don't have them. Its your choice.

I wasn't maternal at all before I became pregnant but became very maternal once my DC was born, which was nice. I don't see motherhood as sacrificing my life, its been very rewarding. People sacrifice life for careers, I find that more baffling, when its simply working to build someone else's dream but in their case and in yours its a case of each to their own, isn't it.

Im self-employed and worked that around my DCs, its pretty naive to think all other aspects of life grind to a halt just because you become a mother. They're grown up now and its nice to see them doing well..and that we can have a good discussion about various things, I find they keep my mind and spirit active. I hadn't foreseen that but its a lovely discovery

I think given that you've already given up a career you loved to keep your husband happy and be at home all the time, you might as well go the whole hog and saddle yourself with more people to run your life for you.

Kids are not a guarantee of having grandchildren .

I most definitely wouldn't have a child for that reason.

I didn't want children but had a surprise pregnancy. I had a great career, travelled, time to myself, freedom, amazing relationship with my husband.
I gave up my career to stay at home with my boys (I elected to have another) and we were completely skint for ages. I found the early years tough and had some regrets about having children I missed my old life.
Now they are at school, I am starting a new career, which I love. The boys are really blossoming and starting to develop their own interests. I could not be happier. The best thing about children is watching them grow and seeing the world through their eyes. Now we are less skint, we go out and about with them more. Maybe not travelling to exotic places, but their excitement and interest in what I no longer notice makes me view the world in a new, fresh light.

I would not be without them now, they are my world and they have brought me and my husband even closer.

Also. It's not always a bed of roses. They can be a pita at times! But having my boys changed my perspective on life for the better. I am less selfish and I am more focused on what's important: the people in my life and not my work.

For me, having a baby has been a thousand times more amazing than I could ever have imagined. Saying that, however, DH and I were very sure that we wanted a baby. I guess what I'm trying to say is that it's not really possible to know intellectually what it's like to be a parent before it happens, but I speak from the point of view of someone who thought it would be pretty great and had my expectations exceeded. I'm sure it's different for everyone.

Honestly? You'll never really know what would make you happier because you can't know now how you'll feel at 50 with no kids. And if you reach 50 with no kids you'll (presumably) never know what it was like to have kids.
You can never really compare.

There's a certain amount of Fear of Missing Out with having kids. Then it happens and it can be a bit anti-climatic. Having had a child (in my late 30s) I now know it hasn't really made me happier or a better person. I don't feel enlightened in any way. I don't feel less selfish (I've let down friends and family as I have less time for them). My health is the worst its ever been and my relationship has altered beyond recognition. And I'm not even a SAHM.

But I wouldn't have known any of that unless I'd had a child. I may have spent the rest of my life utterly miserable as I hadn't had a child.

Its also worth remembering parents have widely different experiences. Its can be a lot easier having plenty of money to pay for quality childcare while you continue to do paid work you enjoy, than staying at home alone all day to look after a child with special needs.

I think it's also worth pointing out that you might not end up with a fairytale child who you get on well with and they are around as you grow old with their own families.

Plenty of children are born with sever mental or physical issues which require a lifetime of care and they will never 'fly the nest'.

Some people find life very difficult and turn out to be total nightmares and have awful relationships with their parents, causing them huge amounts of stress. See the posts on here about teenage children physically saluting their mothers and stuff.

Some children grow up and move to the other side of the world, maybe flying home once every two years.

Don't have children because you think it will be nice later. You have to have children for them.

I do think it's silly when I read posts that talk about having children being ordinary, mundane or boring though. Of course it is, at times. So is everything. Making art. Travelling. Sex. Work. Loving anyone. Learning new skills. Socialising. The most sought after lifestyle imaginable will have dullness, boredom and drudgery at some point. Life can't be lived at maximum intensity for long, regardless of your choices. It's the nature of everything to have peaks and troughs. Children are not some mysterious exception to the laws of the universe.

You don't have to have children. I would say they are more hard work with a bit of pleasure. Life is much harder with a lot more worry. But if I hadn't had children I would have been miserable at the thought of not having them. Don't have them for someone else or because of what everyone else says. I would say only have them if you really have an almost irrational urge to have them. It's hard work and not all wonderful by any means!