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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

to feel uneasy about my friend's BDSM life?

148 replies

DungeonDoGood · 06/07/2015 20:05

My mate and his boyfriend are into fetish and BDSM and spend a fair amount of time and money going around to fetish clubs. I am a bit about the whole thing but never let it show. I'm happy for him to tell me about it as he doesn't go into detail, more just the what-did-you-do-at-the-weekend version that isn't too graphic.

However, this week I'm not feeling so good about it. My friend brought his new 'slave' over to mine on Sunday. The slave had spent a good part of the week in a human sized cage in my friend and his partner's flat, being told when he could leave the cage/get up on the couch/eat from a bowl, etc.

My friend had told me about it earlier in the week and I had been uneasy. However, when I met the 'slave' (dressed normally, no collar, but introduced by the name my friend had given him) I got more concerned. Basically, the guy just brought out all my maternal instincts, he just seemed really vulnerable.

Everyone involved is consenting adults. There is no abuse. The slave contacted my friend in order to act out this role. It just makes me feel a bit weird and I want to tell my friend to stop. But, then, I don't know much about BDSM.

AIBU and should I chill out?

OP posts:

00100001 · 08/07/2015 10:38

ohhhh, compete misread the OP...

If it's happening in their house and they're consenting there's not much to be done about it :/

It's hard to understand, and there is fine line between consent and abuse, but not much you can actually do

Original poster

DungeonDoGood · 08/07/2015 11:09

The Slave being in my house wasn't the issue (my mate can bring his friends over if he is with them and needs to pick something up). It was the vulnerability of the slave and my realisation that this is a lifestyle thing for my friend.

I have just spoken to DH about it. I am considering suggesting counselling to my friend. For BDSM people, I guess that is patronising and outrageous. I'm just considering it. It isn't the kind of intervention I'd usually make with a friend unless they were broken with despair. My friend is actually thrilled with the situation as it is, cage and all.

There is definitely evidence of fucked-upness going on here. My friend has a really dominant father. My friend hasn't worked through a lot of high-risk behaviour that he's been involved with. The slave looked so crazy vulnerable he reminded me of the scene in The Kiterunner when the rescue he boy with the long eyelashes. There's no way this is healthy behaviour.

But OTOH, even the psychologically damaged are entitled to their sexuality if they are all consenting adults.

I am struggling with it. DH knew about the fetish clubs and stuff but even he is blanching at this. DH also thinks my friend is telling me about it both for some kind of absolution and through the 'first flush' excitement of the new relationship.

OP posts:

Lweji · 08/07/2015 12:13

I am considering suggesting counselling to my friend.

I wouldn't. At all.

I do think you need to distance yourself from his choices in this respect, if this is the reaction you are having.

I would simply establish firm boundaries and distance myself as much as possible from that aspect of his life.

butterfly133 · 08/07/2015 12:19

Dungeon, I feel for you, I think this is a really tough spot to be in.

I wonder if there is an element of your friend testing you - in which case you need to be prepared for being told by him that you've failed.

I have a bit of a thing about this - I won't engage with people who do deliberate tests, so in terms of offering a view, my view is unavoidably affected by my feelings on tests!

Lweji · 08/07/2015 12:21

Or some form of grooming.

differentnameforthis · 08/07/2015 13:17

I'm just doing a bit of research on MN first

I CANNOT say this loud enough, but MN is NOT NOT NOT the place to research fetishes on, it really isn't!

IME there is not a diverse enough % of people (sexual & fetish wise) to make a resounding argument anyway on this.

AnyFucker · 08/07/2015 18:03

you are telling your friend he needs counselling ?

that is a really odd conclusion to come to after reviewing all the responses on your thread

hackmum · 08/07/2015 19:27

I think the OP sees it as an ethical issue, not just an "uncomfortable with being exposed to it" issue. I see it as similar to, say, your 40-year old friend taking up with a 16-year old girl. A lot of us would feel unhappy with that and want to say something. But we wouldn't quite know what to say because it's not illegal and both parties might be perfectly happy with it.

ungratefulfecker · 08/07/2015 20:17

I am considering suggesting counselling to my friend. There is definitely evidence of fucked-upness going on here. My friend has a really dominant father.

But OTOH, even the psychologically damaged are entitled to their sexuality if they are all consenting adults.

How magnanimous of you OP.

I am possibly the only one on this thread that thinks you are being disingenuous, but here - have my first .

AnyFucker · 08/07/2015 20:29

op certainly seems rather oblivious to her respondents

Offred · 08/07/2015 20:44

It's hard to understand, and there is fine line between consent and abuse, but not much you can actually do

I fundamentally disagree with this. There is not a fine line at all. BDSM practices do not have special consent exemptions. If you are doing anything risky to the health or wellbeing of your partner/s you need to make sure all involved have given adequate consent like vanilla sex, sex using natural family planning, sex with someone with HIV, sex that includes BDSM games. Regular consent is all that is required - taking steps to ensure your partners are consenting. That includes not shaggig someone who is vulnerable to their consent being inadequate like when they are plastered and not doing stuff in sexual play that could be damaging to someone who is vulnerable if they are a stranger.

Consent is consent is consent.

People who don't care about consent are abusive. Full stop.

And blah blah blah bad childhood...

What the op can do is judge her friend, find him wanting and sack him off.

Original poster

DungeonDoGood · 08/07/2015 20:49

I'm not oblivious to posters, I'm grateful for their input! Clearly, I am conflicted and don't know what, if anything to do. The responses are helping me think this through. Thanks to all the posters.

hackmum - yes, it feels an ethical issue. It went from being an abstract hobby and morphed into the cage/slave lifestyle thing. They don't seem the same to me.

butterfly - I think there might be a test somewhere in this, but I think it is because my friend wants my seal of approval not because he wants to push me for kicks.

OP posts:

butterfly133 · 08/07/2015 22:52

Dungeon - yes, I agree, sorry, I should have said that. Like a test as in "if she is okay with this, she really is the good friend I think she is" type of thing.

or it's possible he just is happy to share it. I don't know. I do understand your discomfort though.

SolidGoldBrass · 08/07/2015 23:26

Some things I would like to clarify: is the 'slave' now living in your friends' house, full time? Or is he someone who comes over at the weekend for a bit of cage action and a spanking? DId the three of them behave in a BDSM fashion in your house or was it just the case that you already knew that this particular chap was the New Slave? I can see a situation where your friends popped in with their new friend in tow and were just, you know, regular people but you had already been told that the new slave was called Timmy and then you were introduced to Timmy, type of thing.

Because I know quite a few people who like to play slave games on Saturday night and spend the rest of the week doing... other stuff, like shopping and going for a swim and watching Eastenders and holding down complicated jobs.

00100001 · 09/07/2015 06:58

offered I think sometimes there is a fine line.
For example, (very broad example here mind) If a vanilla couple were in a situation where one partner was perhaps controlling another in the OPs example and the "sub" was perhaps a vulnerable person with issues and they were "going along" with it all to keep other DP happy, there is consent perhaps? You know the old "but DP loves me/I deserve this/who else would have me" lines. Where someone perhaps isn't string rnigh/secure enough to realise this isn't right or that they can do anything about it. Anyway, people would be concerned for that person.

Obviously, I know there is a difference between these consent situations. And i know that in a healthy bdsm relationship the sub controls what happens to them.

But it can be a fine line, and to presume that there are no vulnerable/abused people in a BDSM relationship would be wrong IMO.

00100001 · 09/07/2015 07:00

dungeon in tje jicest possible way, unless you really think the sub is vulnerable and not consenting to this, then it really isnt anything to do with you.

HeyDuggee · 09/07/2015 08:32

I think you should go to counseling OP, as you are the one who is confused over your feelings and are trying to process them.

Your friend appears to know exactly what he's doing and i get the impression he's manipulating you. There was absolutely NO reason - NONE - for him to tell you the friend he brought to your house (and then made a sandwich for in 10 minutes and left!? Wtf!) was his slave. He could have said, this is my friend Dave.

The fact you're wringing your hands not knowing how to approach your friend and worry anything negative will make him get defensive speaks volumes.

MayPolist · 09/07/2015 09:03

I think you just need to tell him that although you respect his right to whatever consensual fetishes he wants, that hearing about it makes you uncomfortable.
He could just have brought the slave round and introduced him as a friend.

SolidGoldBrass · 09/07/2015 12:45

It's also true that there are some very manipulative and unpleasant individuals on the BDSM scene who identify as submissive. Over the years I have encountered some absolute nightmares who play the 'vulnerable' card as a way of causing as much trouble as they can. Same as in the rest of the world, some people who present as 'wounded bunnies' are about as vulnerable as piranha fish and get off on creating drama around themselves.

RachelRagged · 09/07/2015 12:52

lolll some people's fetishes.

OP YANBU re "slave" coming to your home with your friend .. bit odd.

However all are consenting so ,, there you go . Whatever floats their boats I guess ,, in private.

Offred · 10/07/2015 01:39

a vulnerable person with issues and they were "going along" with it all to keep other DP happy, there is consent perhaps

No there isn't adequate consent there. You are mixing up an idea that there are levels of blame worthiness where there isn't consent with consent itself.

mathanxiety · 10/07/2015 02:40

You will learn a lot about your friend's attitude to boundaries when you take the advice of MayPolist and others on this thread and put up a boundary of your own.

Nargles · 10/07/2015 07:35

I'm pretty liberal and don't really care what folk get up to in their sex loves or love lives and I think your friend being open about the fact he goes to clubs, practices BDSM etc is fair enough. Personally for me the amount of detail he's give you seems unnecessary though and a bit juvenile. I definitely get the impression he's trying to get a reaction because so far you haven't been outraged.

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