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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to feel uneasy about my friend's BDSM life?

148 replies

DungeonDoGood · 06/07/2015 20:05

My mate and his boyfriend are into fetish and BDSM and spend a fair amount of time and money going around to fetish clubs. I am a bit Hmm about the whole thing but never let it show. I'm happy for him to tell me about it as he doesn't go into detail, more just the what-did-you-do-at-the-weekend version that isn't too graphic.

However, this week I'm not feeling so good about it. My friend brought his new 'slave' over to mine on Sunday. The slave had spent a good part of the week in a human sized cage in my friend and his partner's flat, being told when he could leave the cage/get up on the couch/eat from a bowl, etc.

My friend had told me about it earlier in the week and I had been uneasy. However, when I met the 'slave' (dressed normally, no collar, but introduced by the name my friend had given him) I got more concerned. Basically, the guy just brought out all my maternal instincts, he just seemed really vulnerable.

Everyone involved is consenting adults. There is no abuse. The slave contacted my friend in order to act out this role. It just makes me feel a bit weird and I want to tell my friend to stop. But, then, I don't know much about BDSM.

AIBU and should I chill out?

OP posts:
Sazzle41 · 07/07/2015 14:34

Does he like shocking you? Were they hoping you would get involved in some way? I would just say you're not a prude and whatever floats your boat in private but his sex life is not something I want to be involved in.

IceBeing · 07/07/2015 14:47

I don't understand OP,

You have identified the problem as being that the slave appeared to you to be vulnerable.

The solution is to tell your friend you are worried that particular slave is not truly able to consent.

You don't need to tell you friend you don't think any slave would be okay because that doesn't actually seem to be what you think.

I doubt your friend would object to the message that you are cool with it but that this particular person seemed vulnerable and to maybe find someone else?

Lioninthesun · 07/07/2015 15:06

In essence though, aren't they wanting the slave to be like this? The power is the key. If the slave was more "normal" they wouldn't get their jollies off. I suspect all 'slaves' have this about them. I know plenty of women who turn girly and twiddle hair/act like a child in front of men because, presumably, they think some men find this attractive. I have ideas that some men immediately imagine they can do whatever they want with that lady in the bedroom - she's not going to suddenly become adept at expressing her opinions and requirements. Sadly I think a lot of women get trapped in this cycle, but that's another thread.

The idea that these men are going to find a self assured 'slave' who seems to be able to interact with a stranger confidently (i.e you ijn 10 mins) is a little hopeful, I think.

butterfly133 · 07/07/2015 15:08

Dungeon - I thought you had done that, name changed just for this.

Ice - I read the issue as not just concern for the chap, but also the element of "WTF?" and the feeling that it's just odd.

I do think we've come to a point where we are considered totally uncool if we don't understand everything that goes on in everyone's sex life. As for "judging" it's hard to know what that means. If it just means a private mental action, we all do that, even if it's just standing in a Post Office queue and thinking "that man shouldn't have his hairy toes on show". It's not that we have made a massive moral judgement, it's just an automatic thought.

Dungeon, for what it's worth, if all this makes you uneasy on several levels, I would too. But I wouldn't consider the person a friend if I felt unable to say "can we stop talking about this?" without them flaring up.

HestiaThalia · 07/07/2015 15:43

On the basis of the thread title, I was all set to say YABU. I am a massively kinky bastard myself and plenty of seemingly weird BDSM shenanigans make a lot of people very happy.

However, in this particular example, I think it is incredibly bad manners to take a slave to a vanilla friend's house and introduce them as such. I can see how it would make you uncomfortable. There's a reason why people tend to keep their kinky lives separate from their non-kinky lives.

Is it possible that your friend doesn't know how awkward it makes you? Have you overdone the "polite interest" to the extent that he thinks you are interested/curious about the Master/Slave stuff he gets up to?

I think you need to tell him honestly that you are willing to hear about or be exposed to his hobbies? The BDSM "community" is always banging on about the importance of honest communication. I think this applies as much to vanilla friendships as it does to play partners etc.

BDSM couples are used to setting "limits". You need to tell him what your limits are. It's perfectly reasonable not to feel comfortable in that situation. Hopefully, as a good friend, he will understand.

HestiaThalia · 07/07/2015 15:45

NOT willing to hear about or be exposed to his hobbies, I mean.

Flingmoo · 07/07/2015 15:47

is this article about you and your mate, OP?

butterfly133 · 07/07/2015 15:49

I'd be really interested to know if there are any BDSM types who are also uncomfortable with the human slave thing. I don't think this a clear case of "you are open minded or not". I can imagine the slave thing will just make some people uncomfortable, regardless of what else they might be into.

I remember seeing a man being walked, on all fours, on a leash and so on, in a thong and studded collar, on the Finchley Road Tube section of Finchley Road. I was particularly interested in the public aspect of the humiliation. What would he have said if a colleague had been walking by and gone up to him and said "hey". (I know, I know, the answer is "woof").

00100001 · 07/07/2015 15:49

If you're not part of the Scene they're palying, then they shouldn't include you without your full consent.

You say "Everyone involved is consenting adults."

YOU'RE NOT!

Offred · 07/07/2015 15:58

BDSM couples are used to setting "limits". You need to tell him what your limits are. It's perfectly reasonable not to feel comfortable in that situation. Hopefully, as a good friend, he will understand.

Well yeah, my point really. BDSM couples should be used to exploring limits and understanding boundaries. If they aren't in this case it is that which would worry me about him being involved in BDSM, especially when he is doing it with strangers.

00100001 · 07/07/2015 15:58

offred hear hear!

Offred · 07/07/2015 16:01

The idea that these men are going to find a self assured 'slave' who seems to be able to interact with a stranger confidently (i.e you ijn 10 mins) is a little hopeful, I think.

My BF is exceedingly confident with other people. Much more social than I am. He's also extremely sexually submissive. So either this guy was in slave role and you were being put into their sex game without your consent or he is actually vulnerable - none of that reflects well on your friend.

BertieBotts · 07/07/2015 16:04

You could look up rolequeer stuff. It's a movement in the online BDSM community which recognises and seeks alternatives to (to quote) "problematic shit".

But I think even that is a bit overthinking really - just tell him you're not comfortable with witnessing any aspect of BDSM and you'd rather he kept his play out of your house in future, and think nothing more of it.

butterfly133 · 07/07/2015 16:19

Bertie, I don't think it's that simple for the OP. Even the fact of such a thing being a part of her friend's lifestyle is making her uncomfortable - see
"And I really don't think that wanting/having a slave is evidence of being very well adjusted. "

I think I'd just be deciding this friend isn't for me - but I realise that other friends could be doing the same and I just don't know about it.

Offred · 07/07/2015 17:13

bandanablog.wordpress.com/2014/06/29/stop-enabling-sociopathic-abusers-your-kinks-are-not-bdsm/

This sums it up and is also why i hate hate hate 50 shades of grey.

Offred · 07/07/2015 17:27

"Offred Mon 06-Jul-15 21:01:32
What's wrong with being judgey?"

It's important to be judgey... Really important to critically analyse this stuff. If your friend is not doing that despite being involved in it and he is involving you in it he simply has no right to complain when you do. What EXACTLY is wrong with being judgey about this? On his side he is playing sex games on your side you are concerned about human beings being abused - he has to expect to be criticised and he has to be comfortable answering your understandable concerns.

MayPolist · 07/07/2015 18:12

So when they came to your home, did they just act normally, as 3 friends might? Or were they in role?
I think really it is NOYB.It is very patronising to believe that the slave is being abused in some way? No he is getting his rocks off on it all, and you seem to think you have some right to dictate his sex life.Butt out! (pun intended!)

Original poster
DungeonDoGood · 07/07/2015 23:21

Thanks for the replies.

I don't think I have a 'right to dictate his sex life'. I think I unwittingly implied I thought it was all OK, and now I'm not sure that I do think it is OK. I am a bit conflicted over the whole thing. But I do have a little influence over my friend, even if it is just to add a another view of a friend who he trusts.

I think it's right that I could push my friend a bit on the consent/vulnerability issue and see what he says. Although, I think he's likely to say that it's just part of the role.

As for how they behaved at my house - all normal, no humiliation. My friend made the slave a sandwich. If there are blurred lines around how my friend behaves with me then I think I am responsible. I've never said anything negative before.

But like I say, the open-ended lifestyleness of this has made me feel yucky. A party is one thing. A Tuesday evening watching the football on the sofa while you keep a guy in a cage in the same room? I think I've found my personal tolerance limit.

OP posts:
PerspicaciaTick · 07/07/2015 23:27

If they had popped in for 10 minutes to collect something, why on earth did your friend feel the need to start making sandwiches? It sounds like boundaries are an issue all round.

Original poster
DungeonDoGood · 07/07/2015 23:49

We're really good friends. Of the make-sandwiches-at-each-others-houses type of friends. Sandwich making is definitely not a boundary issue. I'm lucky enough to have a couple of those types of friendships and they are special to me - hence why I'm trying to get this more sorted in my head.

Frankly, with a less close friend I'd probably have decided to avoid them and gradually let the friendship slide.

I just keep thinking fucking creepy it all is. And my friend is so not a creepy person at all. I get the sex party stuff but the slave lifestyle thing - hmmm.

OP posts:
Offred · 08/07/2015 04:23

I think it's right that I could push my friend a bit on the consent/vulnerability issue and see what he says. Although, I think he's likely to say that it's just part of the role.

Not having adequate consent is absolutely NOT part of the role. Not having adequate consent makes you abusive in any situation BDSM or not.

Really BDSM stuff can be a lifestyle for some people and there is nothing inherently objectionable about that though you would be fine to say it's not something you want to hear about because it makes you uncomfortable.

Why are you being so affected by what he says is ok instead of applying your own common sense to the situation?

It bothers me when people co-opt BDSM to get away with being just plain abusive and I think everything you say about him convinces me all the more that he is a boundary pushing abusive twat, which is about as far from the 'cool alternative lifestyle' he is trying to convince you he has.

00100001 · 08/07/2015 07:10

You need to let them know you are not consenting to this. If they are being rude enough to involve you in a scene without your consent, or you having no way to say "that's enough" they're being irresponsible and quite presumptuous.

You can only presume the slave is happy and consenting, not much you can really do about that.

But you MUST tell them not to play at your house in that way. Be honest and upfront, if they're such good friends they will not be upset.

Lweji · 08/07/2015 07:20

I would really leave their sex lives away from you, if you are not into it, and would rather not know.

Your boundaries, for you to keep.

It's perfectly fine for you to tell them it's not ok to tell you all about their sex life, and not to bring their "toys" to your home, as it is for you not to visit them when the "toys" are there.

It sounds like you have been so cool about it that they felt the boundaries getting lower and lower. It also sounds that this was too much, so this is where you enforce them.

Hairylegs007 · 08/07/2015 07:37

I would text/email and say that they overstepped your personal boundaries by taking slave to yours and you are unhappy about this. They can do what ever they like but you don't want involvement.

butterfly133 · 08/07/2015 10:27

Hairylegs007, I don't think it's bringing the slave over that has pushed boundaries - have I got this right Dungeon? It's the mere fact that a good friend thinks it's normal to have a slave in a cage while they live their life, watch TV etc.