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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To wonder why so many men lose interest in their kids when the relationship breaks down?

161 replies

dadsnkids · 06/07/2015 08:13

I am wondering why so many men seem to lose interest in their children and don't even seem to love them any more after their wife eirher dies or they split.

I've seen this so many times from previously so called devoted dads and it makes me wonder if they are devoted to their wives not the children and then fall out of love with the kids along with the wife.

Or is it that their new relationship(s) take priority over the kids?

Disclaimer - I know this isn't every man but it seems to be true in many cases I have known.

OP posts:
MiddleAgedandConfused · 06/07/2015 17:04

PIL dumped all his DCs (in their 40's) and and DGCs when MIL died 5 years ago. We might see him one or twice a year now and he is only 20 minutes away. Spends all his time with his new wife and her family.
My dad dumped us a few years after he left my mum for OW.
So my poor DCs only have one interested grandparent (my mum) - who is wonderful with them.
I think this is very common, but no idea why.

rookiemere · 06/07/2015 17:10

In the case of your PIL middleage I think the reason why meetings have dropped is because women are so often the facilitators of contact.

I've noticed it myself as it's now SIL and I who tend to arrange get togethers, and I do most of the birthday cards although it will be a hot day in hell before I send one to DNephew who said that DH was pussywhipped - lovely chap Hmm

Women tend to be the social glue, and if they aren't around to initiate things they tend not to happen.

LonnyVonnyWilsonFrickett · 06/07/2015 21:22

Patriarchy.

Women are conditioned to want babies. Men are conditioned to want women who want babies. Babies come. Relationships end. Men realise they weren't all that into it in the first place. Men get to leave. Society supports this because women are usually the primary carers anyway.

We need to start holding men and women to account for this - shared parental leave is a good starting point. 50/50 parenting is the only thing that will change this pattern, IMO.

rumbleinthrjungle · 06/07/2015 22:22

There seems to be a significant population of men who can compartmentalise or rationalise or be fixed on what they want in the moment rather than be led by emotional connection. My DF when he left us wanted no contact at all. He would drop in occasionally, mostly to see DM who he still relied on as counsellor and comforter even though he was then living with the person he'd left to have an affair with, but never sought to spend any time with us, even younger sibs, nor had any interest in sustaining on his relationship with us. If it was suggested he took them out somewhere to spend time with them he would explain that it was boring, he was tired after work and had things to do. Basically he saw nothing in it for him and he didn't want to. It just wasn't as important to him as peace, quiet and getting himself ready for tomorrow's meetings.

I think he regrets now that he completely lost what he had - the younger ones adored him - but I still don't think he'd do it any differently. My DM said to me that when she went to instruct a solicitor for their divorce (he didn't see the point of her doing that, he saw no need for a divorce just because he wanted to live with someone else, he effectively wanted her to maintain his family home to come in and out of as he wanted and couldn't see why she wasn't falling in joyfully with that) the solicitor said would there be issues about residency of children and she laughed and said only if she said she wasn't having them.

Sometimes I wonder if its a men from mars thing, just a difference in the male brain to female brain. But I do think too when I watch tv, there are so few good role models for fathers in families where they're represented as responsible, committed men with good parenting skills, strong values for themselves in their relationship with their wife and children, equal partners with their wives at home. Booth in Bones is one of the very few, shown parenting his child, liaising with his ex, and in one episode was talking very sharply to a teenaged boy who'd got someone pregnant about that is your child, what are you going to do to provide for it, ensure its safety and wellbeing, this is on you now for the rest of your life - and I thought wow. So many male role models on tv show fathers as a manchild - Men Behaving Badly, Simpsons etc, where father is basically another one of the kids and the mother is the only responsible adult and haha isn't that funny - films about the manchild forced to get a bit of a grip, but not too much and isn't that hilarious too - or they're men totally unencumbered, living the high life. There's no real cultural expectations or modelling to grow up with, and so much 'engaging fathers' work I see in my day job is actually enticing, coaxing and vigorously star chart rewarding the quite large population of less involved fathers for showing even a minor interest in their kids and their parenting role.

Rather like the huge difference in legal expectations between the RP and the NRP - who can mess the kids around to hearts content, not show up for three years then demand and get contact because any crumb of interest is nurtured for the children's sake of having some relationship with them, and the basic standard of care deemed acceptable while on contact can be shockingly low compared to what is demanded of the RP with consequences for not complying. The RP is in the vast majority of cases the mother.

Toadinthehole · 07/07/2015 01:27

Is it true that Family Courts in the UK normally award custody to one parent, and only access rights to the other?

Such a situation would disadvantage the non-custodial parent who, I'm guessing, will normally be the father.

Teabagbeforemilk · 07/07/2015 05:20

I think miggsie has a point. Dbro relys on mum and dad quite a lot. But can't maintain a decent relationship with them. He acts like he resents their help but always asks for more. Mum told me the other day that he never phones unless he wants something, never pops in (he is a few houses away) just to see them. However, I am 100% sure he would not lose contact with his kids if he and his wife split.

And I totally agree with the poster who doesn't understand women who get involved with men who have kids and do their best to destroy that relationship.

I had a friend who did this. Met and married a man who had 2 girls, then spent every waking hour complaining about the girls behaviour, the mother, what the mother bought with 'her money, bemoaned the fact that thy could afford 3 kids like she has always wanted because he had to 'give them money' (as though he was doing his daughters a favour), complained that thy couldn't afford a bigger house, about the girls coming over......in the end her dh left her for the sake of his girls. But by that point he had a son with her, so she then started moaning he didn't pay enough etc. we have drifted apart during this because it infuriates me.

Writerwannabe83 · 07/07/2015 06:41

It baffles me. My sister and her ex (who turned out to be emotionally and financially abusing her) broke up after ten years together when their children were 5 and 8.

That was almost two years ago now and ever since they split up the children probably only see their dad 1-2 times a month as they go there for the occasional Saturday. Maybe once every couple of months they will stop over on the Saturday night and come home on the Sunday but it's incredibly rare. Their dad doesn't seem remotely bothered about this set-up and nor do the children ever particularly want to see him.

overreactionemoticon · 07/07/2015 06:56

Xh wasn't particularly interested in the children when we were together so it didn't surprise me that he was even less bothered after we split up. He kept in vague contact more to be seen to be doing the right thing rather than through a desire to actually spend time with his children. My poor DC deserve so much more.

lighteningirl · 07/07/2015 06:58

You can have the most devoted Dad in the world if Mum doesn't want the relationship to continue it won't. We have two close friends who no longer see kids because the mother's made it impossible.

Athenaviolet · 07/07/2015 07:46

Ime it was better to have a 'dad' who was completely absent from a very early age than one who drifts away gradually/has sporadic contact.

dadsnkids · 07/07/2015 08:05

It's true that some women make life difficult for fathers when they try to have contact but in my case I lived with my dad! He just couldn't be bothered once my mum had died!

I feel I've learned a lot from this thread - thanks.

OP posts:
Writerwannabe83 · 07/07/2015 08:14

My MIL died about twelve months ago and even though FIL lives on the same street (about 20 houses away) we hardly ever see him, probably less often than once a month and even then it's only because we go and see him.

Me and DH have a DS who was born 3 months before MIL passed (he's just over 15 months now) so even though FIL has a grandson now he still doesn't really bothered with us.

It's really odd./

LittleCandle · 07/07/2015 08:37

My XH told DD2, the summer we split up, that he couldn't pay for something (I forget what now) because 'he had a new family now'. OW was, literally, the local prostitute with at least 4 kids by different fathers. DD2 hasn't had a birthday present from him in 7 years. She got a measly £20 at Christmas and was told not to go drinking with it. He pays nothing towards supporting her at university. On the other hand, until recently, he was giving DD1 everything she wanted, paying her mobile phone bill (she's in her 20s and works full time!) and lending her money, and not objecting if she went out drinking which happened a lot He ignores his son from his first marriage and his 3 GC.

DB got married to a very young girl (he was older than her mother and this was marriage no 3) and they had two kids. She left him when the second was 6 months old, after DB decked her uncle at the christening party I don't altogether blame him for that He had the children for one night after that, complained the baby cried(!) and hasn't seen them since. He paid £5 per week for a while, then vanished. He now is married for the 4th time and is playing happy families with stepchildren and stepgrandchildren and in America. I don't get it at all. DF was not the most socially adept person, but after he and my DM split for a few years when i was 10, he phoned every week and i saw him regularly for weekends and weeks away and he was always involved in my life.

Toadinthehole · 07/07/2015 10:25

There's no good scientific basis for "men are from mars, women are from Venus" psychological explanations. The reasons are societal.

My own experience as a very hands-on father is that I sometimes feel I am swimming slightly against the tide. I feel circumstances often .. whispering?.. that I am the back-up parent. All sorts of little things: at my DDs' school, for example, I reckon mention of mums versus dads is probably about a 7:1 ratio. There are the slightly surprised looks from mums at playgroups, and the sense of nervousness around playdates when my DW isn't going to be present. I don't want to say what about the menz, or suggest that men have it better than women, but old societal habits do die very hard.

And also there's work: for most of the last few years I've ended up as the sole breadwinner. We never intended it this way, but even before children I was always more securely employed then DW and, in consequence, she has more time and energy to give the children than I do.

And I also worry that what I do give my children won't really be noticed. My DDad worked like a slave, and gave us a comfortable upbringing, however, my elder siblings take it completely for granted. I worry that my DDs will treat me the same way regardless of what I do.

I think a lot of men have the same perceptions as me. So if the family unit breaks up, the push factors isolating them away from the family group are strong. Perhaps they want it, but perhaps they feel that it is an inevitability.

I will add that I've heard (ref my previous comment) that family courts in the UK will typically award custody to only one parent, something which I have to say is surprising (if true - can anyone enlighten me?). Here in NZ, the default option is joint custody and fathers are expected to do their bit. Also, child support is collected by the flinty-eyed Inland Revenue, so there is more incentive for fathers to share care and by doing so reduce (or eliminate) their assessments, and maintenance orders can't be enforced after 3 years, which puts additional incentive on mothers to work (and not try to exclude fathers from parenting). I reckon all these things reduce the push factors on fathers.

As an aside, DW and I went through a prolonged rough patch, and at one point splitting was a real possiblity. DW assumed that in a separation she'd get sole custody, and was very surprised when I told her that the family courts simply didn't do things that way unless they had to. She also assumed that I'd be the one who left the family home (as both our names are on the title I didn't quite see it that way). I think that attitude is quite common amongst both men and women: the man is expected to bugger off.

I know some older men who have children by previous relationships (before the days of shared care). They didn't see any purpose in trying to carry on being involved with their kids because it all a lot of fuss and bother, and they felt that their kids wouldn't give a shit about them anyway. The impression I get is not that they didn't care, but that they were resigned to it.

ShipShapeAhoy · 07/07/2015 10:53

I didn't remember this when I posted earlier but my mil's mum died when she was about 17 or 18 and soon after (months) her dad kicked her out of the home as he wanted to be alone with his new girlfriend (who he'd started seeing while his wife was dying).

I think this thread shows there are many reasons but I do think that a lot of them can be explained by the patriarchy like Lonny said.

ShipShapeAhoy · 07/07/2015 11:17

She died when mil was 17/18 that should say.

dirtyprettything · 07/07/2015 11:47

I had a completely devoted and loving Dad up to and after my parents separated. He remarried when I was 14 & everything changed forever. She was threatened by me & my sisters and though we are still in touch we rarely speak or see each other. I'm 35 now and I still don't understand it, it has affected my life very deeply

LonnyVonnyWilsonFrickett · 07/07/2015 12:10

I completely agree Toad and find the NZ example very interesting. Things are changing here, but yes, it's very much assumed the woman will 'get' the kids in the event of a split and I think that drives all sorts of behaviour. As women, we do play a part in this, although societal factors are largely responsible imo.

Skiptonlass · 07/07/2015 13:18

Very interesting post, toad.

It's similar here in sweden too - the default is joint custody. We also have shared parental leave and from my limited experience here, men are much more involved in child care generally. I've never heard a man here saying they are babysitting their kids, for example (a pet peeve of mine!) I know plenty of dads who took a year off to raise the kids.

Interestingly, although I know many more blended families here than I did in the uk (there's very little stigma about divorce) I'm struggling to think of a single deadbeat dad.

This leads me to think that society itself has a massive role in it all. The setup here is more equal, far fewer stay at home parents it's generally both parents working and both caring equally. Scandinavian society has always been much more gender equal I think.

Balacqua · 07/07/2015 17:27

Very interesting posts.

I like to think that dh and I are equally involved with our children, and I think dhs father made a big effort following his divorce with dh mother to maintain excellent relations with his dc.

My experience echoes much of what other posters said- my father was disinterested in the everyday childcare with us, did his own thing at weekends and was never there during the week. Like others have said, when db and I became teens he really didn't like how we had no value for him except as a financial provider, which pissed him off no end. He saw us as parasites who offered him nothing satisfying in return for the financial sacrifices he had made to support us.

I have no contact with him now, and can count conversations with him that lasted longer than 10 mins without dissolving into animosity on one hand in my entire life - and I lived with him till I was 18.

If he had had the opportunity through shared parenting/ paternal leave/ joint part time work with my mum working part time as well to really bond with us, maybe he would have found more value in his time with us, and we would have viewed him differently.

My eyes still burn with tears occasionally when I feel so rejected and hurt and disappointed in him as a parent.

VoyageOfDad · 07/07/2015 18:55

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Sickoffrozen · 07/07/2015 19:45

Lots of reasons:

They were not that bothered in the first place.

They have never really been involved anyway, working away? Nights, long hours.

Difficult mothers making it hard for them to continue a relationship with their kids so in the end they give up for their own sanity.

Kids in teens react badly and don't want to see them/spend time with them so they drift away.

I think a lot of men even ones who are still together are quite happy when the kids leave home and they get their house/wife back to themselves.

As someone else mentioned, I think some men have children to keep their partners happy rather than a real desire to have them.

aintnothinbutagstring · 07/07/2015 19:45

miggsie, think you forgot to reference the eminent Nancy Chodorow in 'your' theory there!

Meerka · 07/07/2015 20:16

dadsnkids I'm in the same boat as you. I suppose he was always rather distant but he could be loving.

Once my mother died when I was 11, he did try for a few years but when he met his second wife, well that was it. He went through the motions where he could be observed by others but he sure as hell didn't behind closed doors.

gotroundtoit · 06/07/2017 11:06

My mum died last year and my dad moved on super quickly after almost fifty years of marriage. He went from chomping at the bit to see grandkids all the time to stilted, infrequent, almost obligatory visits. It's made me wonder what this new woman has to make my wonderful dad a stranger (and a stranger who keeps saying nothing has changed, so real discussions are blocked). I'm struggling to accept this new normal as family was always everything to me.