Sex ed - shaving legs in year 5

[Candycoco]

Have posted in education but posting here for traffic.

Dd came home from school today having had sex ed at school for the past 2 days.

I've always been very open with her and have answered questions as they've come up, so no big revelations this week.

However, she told me today that the boys were taught how to shave by male teacher, and girls were taught how to shave their legs. This just doesn't sit right with me. I know 99% of women do shave their legs and it's something I've already talked to dd about as she asked me last year about it and I told her she has to wait til end of year 6 before she starts secondary to do it.

I just feel it's a bit presumptuous and suggests all girls should. Maybe I'm being bit uptight about it but I don't like the message it sends. Is this normal to teach this as park of sex ed?

Thanks

This thread is bizarre. Firstly, as long as you wash your legs they will be clean, there is absolutely no need to shave them for hygiene so the hygiene argument is absolute bollocks.

Secondly, I am amazed that so many fail to see the irony in stating "I felt like a sasquatch" and "I looked like a small hairy Greek man" and in the same post commenting that it's fine for schools to promote shaving. Wtf? So you, as a young child, felt self-conscious and ugly because your perfectly normal body hair and you think the solution to that is not to teach girls that actually your body hair is perfectly fine and no one should tease you for it, but instead they should be taught how to remove it, so the cycle continues.

I see so many posts about "innocence" on these boards, used as an excuse not to tell children about really important and necessary things like where babies come from. And yet we have a big bunch of parents here saying "oh yes it's fine for a 10 year old to be taught how to remove hair, we don't want her to feel self conscious."

She's 10 fucking years of age. 10. She's a child. At this point in her life she shouldn't even be thinking about what her legs look like, just about playing and doing her schoolwork. It makes me sick that we live in a society where schools look at these young girls and think "oh yeah they'll be getting all that hair, they'll want to remove that" and not actually stop for one fucking moment and think "actually is this the right message to be sending? Shouldn't we do more about how normal body hair is and about where the expectation it should be removed comes from so they can genuinely make their own minds up?"

Girls and women are bombarded constantly with images of how they 'should' be. The fact that the school is getting in on that and teaching them how to fit in with the hairless norm and that parents are here defending it sickens me.

I agree with Teabag

You feel uncomfortable with this (which is totally fair enough), but you seem to be kind of picking and twisting the teacher's words, even if you don't realise it.

Much of your thoughts here are based on some second-hand conversations with your 10yr old and how you feel things should be in an idea world...ie parents taking responsibility for this discussion at home.

But in reality, if you had witnessed the lesson yourself you might feel a lot differently.

Go back and have a long talk with the teacher to find out the facts, maybe?

This is a genuine question for all the parents who are ok with this: would you equally be ok if your child came home talking about how the teacher taught them to walk in heels? Or if they taught them how to pluck their eyebrows?

callindana: "the hygiene argument is absolute bollocks."

Not only that, but shaving body hair is unhygienic - you're more likely to get infected.

It's insane. Schools have no business teaching girls this stuff.

If my school had told me something at that age I'd have taken it as gospel - moreso because my mother was extremely prudish and only had the period talk with me when I started to bleed

I understand your point op - if the school's message is received in isolation then it might read as 'you NEED to do this' rather than 'this is an option'.

But cailin I remember feeling self conscious and to be honest masculine at around age ten or so because of my legs!

It's a bit like when girls of that age wear a crop top - they might have nothing to hide but saying 'all you should be thinking about is playing and schoolwork' doesn't mean all they will think about is playing and schoolwork.

Other kids will destroy that innocence soon enough.

Calin that's exactly my thoughts. You explained it a lot better than me!

I have no issues with hair removal for myself and I shaved from age 11. However we weren't told at school to do it. Like another poster said, it's not as if there aren't YouTube videos out there for those kids whose parents can't bring themselves to talk about bodies with their kids! I'm not one of those parents. But I think school over stepped the mark.

"But cailin I remember feeling self conscious and to be honest masculine at around age ten or so because of my legs!"

Why did you feel self conscious and masculine though elder? It is extremely common for girls to have hairy legs, it should be absolutely nothing to be ashamed of. But because we live in a society where hairless legs are the beauty ideal, you as a young child felt awful about your natural, normal legs. Do you think that's right? Do you think other girls should also feel that way? Do you think girls should be taught that their leg hair needs to be removed? Or would that time be better spent teaching the girls that, yes, in our society you as a girl are expected to have hairless legs, so if your legs are hairy you might feel self-conscious and then a proper, genuine discussion about expectations and why you don't have to meet them and how you don't have to feel self conscious and masculine?

I see no point in schools perpetuating the shame girls feel about body hair.

Secondly, I am amazed that so many fail to see the irony in stating "I felt like a sasquatch" and "I looked like a small hairy Greek man" and in the same post commenting that it's fine for schools to promote shaving. Wtf? So you, as a young child, felt self-conscious and ugly because your perfectly normal body hair and you think the solution to that is not to teach girls that actually your body hair is perfectly fine and no one should tease you for it, but instead they should be taught how to remove it, so the cycle continues.

WRONG

The school isn't promoting shaving - the teachers are simply discussing it with the kids, rather than hiding their heads in the sand and pretending it doesn't happen (much like how sex was 'dealt with' during my 70/80s Catholic schooling).

If you read my 'hairy Greek man' post, you will see that my Mum very much tried to teach me that my body hair was perfectly find and no-one should tease me for it. She did this by not shaving herself and totally ignoring the fact I wanted to shave...so therefore like many other kids I went ahead and did it anyway, thus butchering my legs with my Dad's razor.

The 'cycle' as you call it will always continue but hopefully what won't continue is parents dismissing their kid's thoughts and feelings, with "Oh you shouldn't worry about these things, so I'm banning you from doing them".

That has never worked and it never will. It didn't work when sex was a taboo subject amongst families and in schools, and it didn't work for many other subjects either.

Simply saying 'Do as you're told' is a pretty dismissive old fashioned attitude.

Where did I say "do as you're told"? I never said dismiss children's feelings - I believe you entirely that your feelings were valid. What I'm saying is that rather than just teaching shaving, isn't it better to address those feelings, properly, and try to alleviate them? To be clear, I am absolutely not against shaving, I shave myself, I am against the idea that shaving is natural and normal and we should just teach it to girls because oh well it's part of life.

"The 'cycle' as you call it will always continue" - do you really believe that Worra? Do you believe that there's absolutely nothing we can do to stop young children feeling ashamed of their bodies?

I have no issues with hair removal for myself and I shaved from age 11. However we weren't told at school to do it.

So a return to 'head in the sand' type attitudes is the way forward, is it?

As for Youtube videos, considering how much shit there is out there on the internet, I would choose sensible classroom discussions amongst peers every single time.

I just don't get your problem OP since you shaved your own legs as a child and you're going to allow your own child to shave hers soon too.

I agree with Cailin in theory. But in practice I wouldn't want to be the mother that made my DD lead the charge. I have blonde hair and the only time you'll ever notice my luxuriant leg hair is the once a decade wearing of black tights. So when my DM strongly discouraged me from shaving she was right. My xsil wouldn't let my dark haired dn shave and she was mortified by it.
DD is dark and furry so if I'm honest I would probably appreciate someone knowledgeable showing her as I have no idea on best practice.

do you really believe that Worra? Do you believe that there's absolutely nothing we can do to stop young children feeling ashamed of their bodies?

I truly believe young people will always want to shave their body hair, yes.

Especially while there are adults like you and I who shave ours.

Kids want to be like adults. They always have and they always will.

Who is saying do as you are told? Who is saying ban them from doing it? No one has said that and agreed that certainly isn't helpful.

From what dd said it sounds as though it was a brief discussion rather than exploring the options fully, no talking about safety and where to get hair removal stuff from or involving parent/helpful adult. School should be encouraging dialogue between child parents around these issues. And also looking at whether they have to live up to societies and men's expectations that women are hair free.

Well, we don't know for sure if they were promoting shaving - but yes, if they were given a demo on shaving and not told that it's an aesthetic choice but something grown ups automatically do - then it looks like they were.

Have a chat with them. I would.

Ok, Worra, I'd rather change things and make sure young people shave their body hair only if they want to, not because they are made to feel ashamed of it by the society they live in.

Exactly Giddy

In theory it would be wonderful if women, men and children left their bodies as nature intended.

Meanwhile (considering many of us don't) I don't see the harm in teaching them how to remove body hair safely.

As long as they're not being told they have to, I really don't see a problem.

Good posts Worra

Because the discussion I had with her was a lot more thoughtful than her teachers fleeting comments about waxing or shaving! I make sure her self esteem and sense of worth isn't tied up in her appearance. School didn't take those route which is why I wish they'd left it to me

"In theory it would be wonderful if women, men and children left their bodies as nature intended."

Have you noticed though that the vast majority of men (apart from shaving their faces - though not all men do that either) do leave their bodies as nature intended - no make up, no hair extensions, no body shaving, no body shaping underwear, while women feel shame about their bodies from a young age and do many different things to make them different?

Why do think that is?

Now that's something we both agree on calindana

However, despite the OP going back and forth between the kids were 'told how to shave' and 'told they must shave', I'm hoping the teacher made it perfectly clear it's their own choice.

I have a mental picture of the kids turning up on Monday morning, showing the teacher their shaven legs like a homework project because she told them they have to shave

I'm surprised you do agree with me Worra, as we've clashed before on issues like this. I think where were actually disagreeing all along was on the idea that you could actually do something about it. I'd like to think we could develop a society where both girls and boys can be happy with their bodies. Do you not think that's possible?

Have you noticed though that the vast majority of men (apart from shaving their faces - though not all men do that either) do leave their bodies as nature intended - no make up, no hair extensions, no body shaving, no body shaping underwear, while women feel shame about their bodies from a young age and do many different things to make them different?

No I haven't.

At least not the vast majority of men I know who are under 30yrs old.

My eldest DS is 23yrs and it's absolutely common amongst that age group to shave chests, pluck mono-brows, remove pubic hair etc.

Amongst my DH's age group (40+) it's absolutely common to shave/pluck nose and ear hair.

In fact if you've ever watched reality TV shows such as Big Brother etc, the men's grooming routines are often as thorough as the women's.

from what I read OP the teacher didn't teach then to shave - she just mentioned it

I think YABU

and as to shaving it's up to my child what she does to her body - dd2 started puberty at 7 - she got an electric razor at 10 - her sister is 12 and also has one - they begged me - who am I to dictate what they can do with their leg hair ffs

Sorry last one was cross-posts.