To wonder why so many women allow themselves to be downtrodden martyrs?

[Flashbangandgone]

I've been wondering this since reading in a thread earlier about bbqs where various posters complained about doing all the shopping, preparation, clearing up etc. only for their dps to get all the glory for standing over a bbq turning prepared meat for 20 minutes whilst they appear to sulk in the background.

There's nothing overly abusive or extreme about the behaviour here... just low grade stuff, but it just to be typical for many (not all, or even most, just quite a lot of people it seems)

I can't imagine a man acting in this way...

Why oh why?

My MIL is not a martyr, but she is quite typical of a lot of working class women of her generation. She worked before marriage, but was expected to stop when she got married. as a woman she was expected to devote herself to the domestic side of life, like her mother had done. And it's not so long ago that many of the labour saving devices that we take for granted were not available to women : imagine if you had to wash all your family clothes by hand, to somehow get them dry year round without s tumble dryer, to sweep floors rather than hoovering, to light a fire in a range every morning just to make a cuppa and cook breakfast. In DH's family, the above was true only two generations back - and MIL has clearly carried that mentality forward, that all domestic chores are womens work. She has never had s tumble drier, only gets the Hoover out once in a blue moon, and she installed a (gas fired) Rayburn in their house so she could cook as she remembers her own mother doing!

The other belief that she holds, which contributes to the posts about "useless" husbands, is that men are basically clueless outside their own work. Her father would never lift a hand at home- his job was to earn the money, and make all the big decisions, end of story. It's an odd blend of men being infantilised yet holding all the power. No wonder women became martyrs. Things may have changed but it can be hard to shake off what you see as normal ie what your parents taught you by their words and actions.

My mum is like this but over the years when challenged, professes to "enjoy it"
When my ex left me with 4 kids for the ow, she was more supportive to him, she snapped at me one day "well people meet other people and move on!"
I know what's behind this is that she thinks he was pushed into leaving by my refusal to be a slave and pander to his every whim.

My dd is 13 and can barely manage to lift a finger at home, it's hard to imagine her generation making the same mistakes as their mothers before them.

I agree that this is more complicated than it looks and that we are given very mixed messages about what it is to be a "good" mother.
I am older than the average on here and certainly was brought up to think that being cheerful, holding the family together and making a comfortable home was the ideal to aspire to ( not that I met this ideal). For a while in the 70s and 80s mothers were expected to simultaneously hold down full time jobs (called the double shift).
Mantras like "God first, others second, self last" still hang about at the edges on my consciousness, along with the passage from the Bible about the "good wife" whose price is above rubies. Not making me into a great housewife by the way but inducing feelings of guilt.
Nothing worse though than someone doing passive aggressive housework whilst moaning and sighing though.
For both genders there is a balance between self-respect and teaching the kids skills and the sort of unselfishness and consideration that makes family life pleasant. No reason this should all come from one, usually female, person.

My mum is like this, and mollycoddled me so much that I went to uni unable to boil pasta despite asking her to teach me basic cooking and cleaning skills. I've since learnt off flatmates and am much more independent. However, when at home over summer she does not like me cooking, cleaning, hoovering, anything and moans I don't do anything - despite the fact that if I do Hoover as I did last week, she has a go at me. Dad is retired but mum still at work. she's pampered him all his adult life and refuses to show him how to do things so hes able to do it himself. when I show him how to put on a duvet cover etc, she says he can't do it himself and he does take advantage of that im afraid. Long story short, she works long hours and moans no one does anything but if we do, it's wrong. of course I still cook while she's at work - we've got to eat proper food - but it causes a number of arguments

Interesting psychology... Various different pictures of 'women who do everything'.... Either they're put upon by lazy partners and don't have the strength of will or ability to push back, and their bottled up anger comes out as passive aggression.... Or they infantilise their partners effectively to take control in a relationship but at the cost of working themselves into the ground as a result and then bemoaning their hard life.

My Mum was the polar opposite of this and spent most of my childhood wafting about in chiffon having just popped to the shops, for a hair appointment or to the beauticians. My Dad did everything, had her on a pedestal and adored the bones of her, but taught me everything he knew, from housework to DIY to changing tyres and oil on cars, because he said he hated the thought of me growing up like her.

I married a man raised by a martyr, she's a lovely woman but my God she likes to suffer. He was a lazy ape when we met, had no idea how to function so I had to raise this giant man-baby and teach him to sort his shit out. It's painful to watch her going through life so unhappy and refusing to do anything about it.

So, a mother who has always put herself first, and a MIL who has always put others first. Both are entirely mad. And unhappy. I've no idea what it all means.

Flash you have forgotten the 3rd type, like my MIL - martyrs who like to flap about like they are so busy, but are actually doing fuck all of any use or value.

I cannot abide "martyr women". They're normally moaning & bending their female friends' ears all the time about their lot in life, but quiet and simpering when men are around.

My DM didnt allow me or my DSis to do any housework at all when younger, including cooking. I had a rude awakening when I left home and couldn't do a thing for myself. I can cook very well now, and am OK with housework but NOT brilliant. In front of any partner I've ever had, my DM has gleefully found a way to point out that Im not good at stuff, or can't cook this or that (even though I cook better than her). I put her in her place and then she does the hurt act. She does it to my DSis too.

I have no sympathy whatsoever - martyr women are manipulative attention seekers, normally pitting themself against other women, and be sure they'll find a way to let you know what a saint they are

Snapes

"I married a man raised by a martyr, she's a lovely woman but my God she likes to suffer. He was a lazy ape when we met"

Well thats cheered up my boring Sunday Im in fits of laughter now (I know you were being serious - sorry!)

You have a way with words

Haha, Mistress it always pleases me when someone can laugh with me at my unending misery!

And yes, yes, to them being manipulators! That is exactly what MIL is; she'll ask me something, I'll say no (I'm very black and white, when she gets on my tits I tell her so) and she'll phone DH to ask him the same thing and wheedle around him. Naughty twat.

Because people need a role in life. Take away martyr and a lot of women have nothing else. Especially if like my own DM, the role of wasn't one she found fulfilling. Thing is that for those who need to be needed it can be a neon sign above their head saying pushover/mug to those with abusive tendency.

Eh...

Howmany what a load of old shit!

I earn 50% more than DP in a more senior job etc. I don't think anyone feels threatened I'm just very career focused where he is probably better and distancing work/life.

I have an aunt who is a real martyr and is trying to turn her (grown up- late twenties) daughter into the same. This idea that she needs a husband and she is to wait on him etc. if you ever go round everything is such an effort it was rah rah rah... Even when what's on offer is some shop bought cake and tea. It makes everyone very uncomfortable.

I find women waiting on men very bizarre I know couples who work full time and the women still do huge proportions of the house work. Me and DP just get on with it, whoever cooks doesn't wash up, whoever hoovered the house last time doesn't do it the next clean up after yourselves etc etc etc. If you're living in the house you take equal care of it! My parents were of same attitude

Howmany I don't agree with your generalisations, but I do respect your choices. Being somewhat incompetent on the housework front and the daughter of a mother who was not made for but was forced to be a housewife, I have every admiration for housewives, but will fight to the death for our right to work outside the home and be valued for it.

Historically being a housewife was only one of the many roles women have played, and some have been wonderful leaders too

Dh and I married very young and I have never ever been like this. Lots of young girls seem to be on facebook putting up pics of breakfasts with #futurewife #feeding my man.

They ask you have such a lovely husband how do you do it? Err because men don't usually like sappy doormats (well decent ones don't))