To wonder why so many women allow themselves to be downtrodden martyrs?

[Flashbangandgone]

I've been wondering this since reading in a thread earlier about bbqs where various posters complained about doing all the shopping, preparation, clearing up etc. only for their dps to get all the glory for standing over a bbq turning prepared meat for 20 minutes whilst they appear to sulk in the background.

There's nothing overly abusive or extreme about the behaviour here... just low grade stuff, but it just to be typical for many (not all, or even most, just quite a lot of people it seems)

I can't imagine a man acting in this way...

Why oh why?

There was a "lighthearted" thread a week or so ago about how utterly hilarious it was that men didn't pick things up after themselves, they just left stuff on the floor or balanced it near where it might need to go. So many people were chiming in with how similar it was to their dh's. I just cannot understand this attitude at all. I did not marry an overgrown child who feels the need to balance socks on top of the washing basket, why would you? All I could see were lots of women being treated with utter contempt.

ledkr but if you continue to let it happen and moan about it, but not to your partner but to your friends and here. Then you are being a doormat and a martyr.

Some times I do more at home, sometimes dh does. If it went on where I was doing a lot more I would tell him. Too many people do not discuss these things with the person they should be. They come here and moan on mn or to friends, family etc.

Sometimes having a rant helps and you realise you are doing more than usual but there is a reason for it, maybe your partner is working extra hours recently. But if it continues without you broaching it that's where the doormat come into it.

When I say 'you' I mean generic you, not you personally.

I'm with you OP. It just wouldn't happen in our house. It's not something I want my daughters to grow up with as the 'norm'. And I'm currently a SAHM!

I agree, but that attitude gets me into trouble on MN on occasion.
I feel the same way about whiney mothers with uncooperative older children.
No, having equal, mutually respectful relationships isn't easy. But I don't think you can achive them without honesty and an ability to be self-critical.
I don't post in relationships, my FFS why? keys would wear out.

I think some of it is guilt(?), shame or whatever feeling at being a sahm, my Facebook is full of women justifying not working by being busier than the rest of the universe;

'Load of washing on, hoovered living room, kids dressed, dropped at school, food shop, hang out washing, next load on, precooked dinner for tonight, tidied everyone's bedrooms, finally sat down for my first cup of tea and it's not even midday. Busy PHEW!'

Omg yes to when people write long lists of how busy they are. But half the time the list of things has been made to sound sooo long but surely getting up, getting dressed and having breakfast doesn't mean you've had a really busy day, it's just what you do every day??

This thread is a real eye opener. My mother was a martyr and I left home with zero practical life skills. Consequently, in my 30s I'm scared of living alone because I don't know how I'd survive. I have effectively been infantised.

FunFun what martyrs don't let on is that actually, looking after yourself isn't difficult! It's pretty easy to cook a basic meal, use a washing machine, clean etc. You would be absolutely fine looking after yourself, just take the plunge!

I've noticed a lot of gatekeeping at MN. There are posters who complain about how their partners can't be relied upon to go food shopping, clean properly, look after the children, etc.

I suspect these messages are often posted because the posters enjoy the hairpats and sympathy and responses of 'poor pitiful you', thus validing their feelings of martyrdom and how the whole world rests on their shoulders and how their partners are incompetent etc.

This thread is a real eye opener. My mother was a martyr and I left home with zero practical life skills. Consequently, in my 30s I'm scared of living alone because I don't know how I'd survive. I have effectively been infantised.

The first step to fixing that is to stop blaming your mother. You've been your own boss for long enough.

Oh, and some very good points here.

Oh I am taking the plunge very soon (also getting counselling to assist me), but my mother's behaviour has made the transition much more scary than it needs to be. I resent her for that.

Consequently, in my 30s I'm scared of living alone because I don't know how I'd survive. I have effectively been infantised.

Plenty of people leave home at ages where they are basically children and manage - most worry that they won't be able to manage, but they get on with it. Don't let yourself by the second generation martyr by making your mum responsible for the fact that you aren't taking any initiative to resolve the situation.

Cross-posted - glad you are taking the plunge, but don't waste your energy on resentment when you have so much else on your plate!

I suspect these messages are often posted because the posters enjoy the hairpats and sympathy and responses of 'poor pitiful you', thus validing their feelings of martyrdom and how the whole world rests on their shoulders and how their partners are incompetent etc.

I get this impression too. I dont usually comment, because i wonder if living with my mum (who did exactly this) is influences my thinking.

When i was pg with pfb i lived a 30 minute drive from mum. When i was on Mat Leave she always came round. I wished she would leave me alone some days. She wouldnt piss off and leave me to my last child free days. My grandad took me to the side and told me i was expecting too much from her, by having her round all the time to do my housework. I told both of them straight. I don't expect, ask or even hint that i want her there and when she is there she sits on her arse drinking tea. I now see it was all about her making out she was a saint, putting me first. Fact is, dad was still working and she was a bit lonely.

FunFun you can't blame your mother forever. You could have learnt by now. I do get it as mum was the same. But looking after yourself is nowhere near as hard as martyrs make out.

Teabag my mum is similar. I'm currently 39 weeks with DC2 and she keeps booking days off work to 'help' me. In reality she sits drinking tea and eating our food. All her colleagues and the rest of our family think she's an absolute saint for using her holiday to help me out.

I'ts because females are still socialised in lots of tiny ways day in day out to be cooperative, non-competitive, nurturing, caring, 'nice', blah blah blah, and are still "othered" for having their own opinion or asserting themselves. You only have to look at the language that's used: "She's bossy"/"He's a leader", "She's a ball-breaker/He's authoritative" and my own personal hate "She's feisty". You never hear a man who dares to assert himself or express an opinion forcefully being called "feisty" do you.

It is clearly something deeply inherent about how many girls are being socialised and raised, that they feel that the caring, cleaning and cooking roles fall to them. But what? It's hard to pinpoint, but so many threads on here show it is clearly there.

Sometimes I wonder whether it is a case of many of us raised in the 60s, 70s etc saw our mum at home not working the same as our dad, and have subconsciously absorbed the idea of the woman as more responsible for the home?

However, as with others, sometimes you read some threads on here and think, FFS, stop babying the man, just tell him to do stuff! (especially in the case of threads which give no indication of abuse, just general laziness)

The children/childcare related complaints have, over the years, started to amuse me. How many threads do you see from women with very young DC talking about how they don't like to leave their kids with their dad for any real time, how they comment all the time that he is 'doing it wrong'?

I can never see it as a huge surprise if a dad is never left alone (never trusted) to care for his kids for the first year or two, that there are issues down the line with even the dad seeing the mum as the default caregiver.

I'm not saying it's ideal, I'm not saying men should do that, but... If you push him out and make him feel like he's not capable for the first year or two, don't be surprised if he loses confidence and backs away to just be the fun, playing dad.

I am a martyr and I I admit it. Why? I used to ask H to do things in the house, he always said "I can't", "I am busy", "I don't know how" "I am tired" "this is a woman's job". So I did it myself, because I am not great at nagging.
The results of the martyrdom are not great. Things do not get done unless I do it. Worse, I have a couch potato (H) how still can't/won't. I have now stopped doing things, but I still struggle with asking for help, so we are drowning in undone things. H has to go as he will not change. I need to sort myself out as this cannot continue and is a bad example for DC.

Martyr mum here too! Not so much nowadays but when we were younger, we would try help out, at my dads request, by doing the washing or hoovering and she would complain that everything we did was wrong and would take the chore off us and do it herself and then complain that we did nothing to help! It used to drive us bonkers.
She would actively discourage us from doing anything by putting us down and then complain and get angry that she did 'everything and nobody helped' She is a fantastic mother in alot of ways but she let us down here.

The result is my younger brother is absolutely hopeless, cannot do anything for himself. Can't pay bills, make a dinner, put a wash on and he's 25.

I'm terrified of turning into her, terrified. So much so that it can have a negative impact on my relationship with DP. It's not helped by the fact that his mother is a martyr too and barely thought him any life skills, he can be pathetic sometimes (but knows it). It was up to me to teach him. I have to make sure everything is equal. I resent doing more housework than him and I get mad when he does too much aswell. I try to rein it in and be mindful of my attitude but it really does have a negative impact.

If, hopefully, we have children, this is one thing I will be very very mindful of.

Sometimes I wonder whether it is a case of many of us raised in the 60s, 70s etc saw our mum at home not working the same as our dad, and have subconsciously absorbed the idea of the woman as more responsible for the home?

i find it odd as i was born 71, saw my mum being a maytr (she still is), listened to the women ranting on the telly and decided "sod that I am getting a degree a proper job and being my own woman"

I refuse to be a martyr to me kids - they hate me for it but that's tough - I left home at 17 and had to take care of myself - I expect then to have basic skills - the eldest two can bake, cook simple meals and do cleaning - they are expected to muck in and is my youngest - they tidy their rooms and they clear their shit away - I'll do mine

But I refuse to lay the blame for abusive or damaging relationships at womens feet alone - sorry but if a man behaves like a cunt that's His choice

Oh, I agree with that, 0x530 - I did the same. My mum hated being at home and it pushed me the other way too.

The thing I notice most about threads on MN is how mothers get the blame for absolutely everything.

My Mum was a martyr - therefore I left home not being able to
do a thing for myself.

I'm overweight - my Mum gave me a really unhealthy attitude to food.

My Mum was cold and indifferent - therefore I sought out abusive relationships because that's all I knew.

And so on.

At what point do we take responsibility for ourselves and stop blaming our Mum for everything? It's all part of it. Women/mothers can't win no matter how they do things. No wonder some choose the path of least resistance of martyrdom.

ghostyslovesheep I wish you had been my mother. Bravo.