AIBU to say that the racism against the Williams sisters never goes away

[derxa]

www.telegraph.co.uk/women/womens-life/11174583/Calling-Serena-Williams-scary-isnt-just-sexist-its-racist-too.html

Just that. I think they're fantastic sportswomen and every commentary on every game seems to make out that they are the bogey man/woman fighting against the delicate flower on the other side of the net.

Awsome match!

better than that American S.i.l.v.er. B.a..c..k Williams

What does that bit of the dm quote mean?

Right so a white person can be called aggressive because they are aggressive but calling a black person aggressive (even if they are aggressive) can be racist? To me aggression is aggression. Aggression is a human trait regardless of skin colour.

It is crystal. But just like black people are far more likely to be stopped and searched by police despite being a smaller percentage of the population (and be more likely to be found 'clean' compared to whites) black people are also more likely to be described as aggressive than the general population. You can all say "oh I just happen to think she's aggressive" but at some point it stops being generalities because there's a very strong undercurrent of racism in it. That doesn't necessarily mean YOU are racist for saying it, but you should be aware of how some people saying it can be used as a way to be racist, you know?

Anyway it's a side point and you're best served looking up racism and language and coded language if you want to know more about it.

I get what you are saying but surely if a black person is being aggressive it's ok to say that - because it's describing the behaviour, Im not being racist by saying that for example?

Agree that the term aggressive is used to undermine black people.
If a black person asserts themselves they are perceived as aggressive.
I think that Stare's posts were on the verge of being racist. The irony is that many posters are unable to see this..

I think the undercurrents of certain words can be very hard to see, especially if you are not actually on the receiving end of it. I genuinely feel that most white people have no idea how hard it is to be black sometimes. Not their fault i suppose but its hard to express in words what its like to live with constant, sub radar, casual racism.

Stop and search in London is a classic example.

Reporting of crimes is another. Black criminals are "thugs" "aggressive" "intimidating".
White criminals are "troubled".

It is really bad. And often dismissed.

I don't think calling a black person aggressive is racist, but I do think as there is a stereotype of black people being aggressive it can be problematic.

I mean that people might notice aggressive behaviour more in a black person because they expect it (even subconsciously) and also they might interpret a certain behaviour as aggression in a black person when they wouldn't in a non-black person.

Also I think agression in a non-black person may be more like to be excused. Or the agression may be looked at as smaller part of their personality, where it may be the main focus on a black person.

That seems to be happening here a bit I think. Serena's aggression is being overly focused on and the racism she has suffered (which was meant to be the point of the thread) isn't getting much of a mention.

I feel like the point has been made that Serena has acted in an aggressive manner in the past, and maybe she isnt a very nice person, but maybe it's time to move on from that point. Although I am curious as to what happened with that line court person she lost her temper with. Not saying there was an excuse for her to react so badly btw.

Shipshape, that DM quotation calls SW a 'silverback', ie a dominant adult male gorilla.

I'm surprised anyone could argue that the Williamses haven't been subjected to grim, throwback racism and sexism - and looked down on on class grounds, too. It's reminding me of the thread on Aunt Jemima products, where lots of posters seemed completely unaware of the history of the AJ stereotype. Are some people really so unaware of damaging stereotypes like the 'angry black woman' and the othering and fetishisation of the black female body as grotesque/animal that the Williamses keep being subjected to?

What a pathetic individual that dm commenter must be. So many scrotes on the planet.

Shipshape - I agree that Serena's day-to-day play may be more likely to be described as aggressive, especially when compared to other players.

However, her rant at the lines woman was utterly vile and I don't think has been "overly focused" on because she's black. I watched it and her behaviour was disgusting, I'm surprised she wasn't banned. Other players swear and mutter and throw their racquets around but they don't threaten to kill staff. Kyrios has recently been disrespectful to umpires and he's being crucified in the Australian press - he didn't say "If I could, I'd ram this fucking ball down your fucking throat" either. I can't think of another player who has openly threatened a court side official - I don't think her aggression is being excessively focused on as well.

In Serena's case I meant over focused on in the context of this thread which was meant to discuss racism. The point she acted really badly in that situation has been made several times now. I'm not saying that part of her character should be ignored but repeating it again doesn't seem constructive.

Repeating that story again I meant by 'it'.

Well, up thread it was minimised as "she swore". Unfortunately, aggressive acts like that do create an overall impression of aggression.

Coffee you say you dont think her aggression has been overly focused on but on a threat about racism you have not commented on anything else other than her aggression.

*thread

Which is why I'm struggling to understand why it's racist to call her aggressive when she aggressively and very obviously threatened a lines woman.

The thread seems to be saying that she's being called aggressive because she's black. I'm saying that she's being called aggressive because she's behaved aggressively. I like tennis and watch it frequently, I can't think of another player in recent times who's bullied a court side official like she has. It put me off her. Venus seems nicer though.

No one said it is racist to call her that, unless stereotyping.

I and others have raised the point many times, sigh that on a thread about racism you and others have ignored the racist comments and decided to pick on her character.

Why can you muster up all that indignation and prose about a linesman but have nothing at all to say about this:

"Silverback: a dominant male gorilla".

And the accusations of aggressiveness long predate the line-judge threat which was in 2009. Yes, she behaved appallingly, but that incident is being retrospectively used to justify heavily gendered and raced characterisations of her as angry and animalistic, which date from the start of her career.

I've never denied that she's likely been subjected to racism. The Silverback comment is vile. I think they're fantastic athletes. I just think it's disingenuous to state that she's been called aggressive just because she's black. The first page of the thread basically says that the language used to describe her is subtle racism, with aggressive one of those adjectives. I can't understand why it's not acceptable to say that some of those adjectives are likely used to describe her because she's earned them by being bullying and threatening.

"Likely been subjected to racism"

Likely???

Are you actually serious Coffee?

Sadly op, I don't think that racism will ever be extinct. As a younger person, I'd always thought that racism, sexism, homophobia, ageism, would all die out as people became more educated. I naively thought that such views so just die a natural death.
One day...

Would, not so.

yanbu

It's an odd thing many people will claim that are not racist and can not see racism where others can who are experiencing it. It's quite an uncomfortable feeling to know that your voice collectively with others who are white is louder but until you get that and stop dismissing what you can not see as not being true what changes - nothing

But then again that suits many people