AIBU to say that the racism against the Williams sisters never goes away

[derxa]

www.telegraph.co.uk/women/womens-life/11174583/Calling-Serena-Williams-scary-isnt-just-sexist-its-racist-too.html

Just that. I think they're fantastic sportswomen and every commentary on every game seems to make out that they are the bogey man/woman fighting against the delicate flower on the other side of the net.

I think this is just going round in circles.
Racism is wholly unacceptable,obviously

That stands alone.

When Serena threatened the line judge, she shocked previous fans. For that she is totally to blame.

I don't hear such venim directed to her sister, l wonder why?

*toward her sister.

However, her aggression does not justify the racism she has experienced all her career

Who has said it does? Certainly no-one here.

I certainly didn't mean that her aggression justifies her racist treatment. Definitely not. I was just saying that you can think someone is aggressive based on aggressive behaviour without necessary having a racist motivation.

I see what you mean about the thread moving to focus on that though.

Btw saying she's manly/ugly/whatever I don't agree with- not necessarily racist but disgusting nonetheless.

Serena and Venus both have suffered racism and I agree with the OP.

Venus always comes across alright but, I still think Serena is a bit aggressive. I also think Sharapova takes 'gamesmanship' to a new level.

Crystal i never said that anyone said anything, actually.

I was supporting Capricorn's point that it is like racism or sexism are not big enough atrocities on their own, people have to dilute them and minimise them by pointing out other random, irrelevant "faults".

This is also my personal experience in real life too.

They've just been around too long. And they are totally charmless. Nothing to do with race. They're like Ant and Dec. People are sick of the sight of them.

Been around too long?

They have been the best at what they do for too long? That is something to be criticised for now?!

I despair.

In terms of people being bored of them I think they have suffered because they (particularly Serena) are so much better than anyone else. It makes watching their games a bit one sided and there's never really been anyone who has formed a rivalry (with Federer there had been Nadal etc)

That's not their fault though. What are they going to do? Tone it down? Don't think so!!

I know you never said anyone here said that Eminado but it goes without saying being aggressive does not justify racism.

This overlaps a discussion in FWR, they are women showing physical prowess for sport which already due to our conditioning of what men and women should be, marks them as weird and they are playing a sport which was largely the preserve of the white middle class.

And it seems that people here who say she is aggressive are being accused of that having racist undertones. There is no link.

I was thinking about this. I really love Trevor McDonald. He's such an interesting and charming man. Or that's how he comes over. I know he's not a tennis player! So it can't be racism. There just isn't a link. IMHO.

Also I saw a programme about the life of Margot Fonteyn. Her excellence in dancing apparently held back opportunities for other talented young dancers to shine. I think these factors are more important than racism.

She is aggressive and so is Sharapova, Billie Jean King etc. She is aggressive and competitive. That is why she is a winner. She is different from most other human beings who do not have that competitive drive. People don't like Andy Murray because he is aggressive and Scottish. Gone are the days of dear old Dan Maskell who said the best tennis player who he had ever seen was Princess Anne!!!

I expect all pro sports people to be aggressively competitive, but not actually aggressive in a threatening people sense. There is a difference.

I genuinely think if I saw Sharapova threatening people on court I would think of her as an aggressive person rather than an aggressive competitor too.

Maybe other tennis players do do that and it just isn't reported. If that is the case then I agree it's very probably racist reporting.

Derxa I take it you mean some English people don't like Andy Murray because he's Scottish? Why should his being Scottish matter anyway, in tennis he represents Britain.

It's pure sexism and is done to discourage women from taking up sport as it will apparently make them 'unfeminine'.

Female Runners face the same barrage of criticism and are told that running will ruin their looks and give them runner's face.

Article from Telegraph:

This is why the whole concept of "runner's face" is so insidious. It threatens to take us away from the joys of running and right back into prescriptive ideas about how women should look, act and perform. It's all very well to want to run a marathon – but just think of what might happen to your face! This kind of policing happens too frequently in sports – strong, muscular, fit athletes are castigated for failures of femininity, rather than celebrated for their achievements.

And it seems that people here who say she is aggressive are being accused of that having racist undertones. There is no link

See, I think there could be a link, but it doesn't mean there will always be a link.

There sometimes can be link but not in every case.

I find her too aggressive, I'm black and I'm not racist towards my own race or any other...I find Sharapova's gamesmanship too much sometimes.

There is a link. I did say it doesn't mean it's connected 100% of the time but people (white people especially) should consider the language they use and consider whether the root cause of their criticism is genuinely that issue (would they feel the same if a white player did it?) or has roots in something else.

Calling black people aggressive and angry and volatile and any other such negative insult is a well known racist trick to try and undermine black people (cause argue back and what are you? Oh! Aggressive/angry/volatile/whatever. Dirty trick).

The language used is one small part of a bigger racist picture. The fact they've been so astonishingly successful and focussed despite this background noise is a testament to their skill and ambition.

This reminds me of the thread about women exercising in the great outdoors and the sexist comments they endured.

Maybe Serena and Venus don't exactly fit the simpering, small, sexually available ideal of how men think women should be, and so there's a backlash against them as women.
Maybe women find them to be too good to be true and find themselves feeling inadequate against such competition?
Maybe it's just racism plain and simple?

Who knows- it's probably a combination of all three.
I think they're wonderful. As I do all sports women and men actually, even Pippa.

In a way the backlash reminds me of the racism against Nina Simone- considered too black to play classical music and refused further education because of the colour of her skin.

But sometimes, someone is aggressive and they happen to be black.

So, "better not say they're being aggressive because then I might be called a racist" will happen.

Being black and being aggressive are not related and by holding back saying someone is aggressive because you associate it with a racial stereotype is just as bad in my opinion.

nkfell, stop sucking up to white people. they will judge you the same way that they judge every other black person. don't imagine that they will see the calm, lovely difference in you.

the Williams travel in numbers because they know that the whites in tennis are not and will never be their friends

they have hung around so long because they can still beat most other players who don't feel the need to make too much effort. the whites can earn $100m just by having a white face. sharapova has not beaten serena Williams in at least 15 attempts but she still gets all the sponsorship due to her white face and white hair. kournikova was supposed to be a great player but retired to be professionally blonde instead, couldn't be bothered with doing any work.

don't we have this thread every Wimbledon?

To a previous poster that said the crowd always support the opponents that is quite often because the Williams sisters, serena in particular win games quickly. Watching yesterday's gamecwith Venus I don't think the crowd were supporting any player, they just wanted the tennis to go on for longer. You can see the same now with the brown/ nadal match. The crowd have been behind brown this match but are supporting Rafa now on the hope the game will go to 5 sets.
There is undoubtedly lots of sexism aimed at the Williams,however that is certainly not from the sport itself(at least not in the uk) in this country the LTA are spending vast amounts to try and get girls and women to play tennis.

what a match nancy! brilliant