To say something about an email addressed "Dear Ladies"?

[SilverBirchWithout]

I've just received an internal email (from someone I have not met) addressed to myself and a colleague. It opens with "Dear Ladies", I personally find the general term "Ladies", unless used in a light-hearted way, quite sexist.

I'm now being really judgy about the person who sent it, I assume they are male, but they have an unusual first name, so it's not clear.

1. Would you be as irritated as I am?
2. Does it make any difference if they are another woman or a man?
3. Would you say anything? If so what?
4. Should I bother to actually respond to their request for info, as it is readily available on the organisation's intranet?

Or am I just hot and grumpy?

I work for enlightened organisation, which amongst other activities, campaigns on improving women's rights in the UK and overseas.

I tend to say hello all or hello both. Hello ladies or hello gents just seems cringey to me.

I wouldn't appreciate it either op.

I'm all for the use on non gendered pronouns and nouns.

They could have easily addressed the email to Dear Colleagues. People seems to struggle with using non-gendered works but they are readily available:

Parent for example

Examples Alternatives
-- --
mankind - humanity, people, human beings
man's achievements - human achievements
the best man for the job - the best person for the job
man-made - synthetic, manufactured, machine-made
the common man - the average person, ordinary people
man the stockroom - staff the stockroom
nine man-hours - nine staff-hours

chairman - coordinator (of a committee or
department), moderator (of a
meeting), presiding officer, head,
chair
businessman - business executive
fireman - firefighter
mailman - mail carrier
steward and stewardess - flight attendant
policeman and policewoman - police officer
congressman - congressional representative

www2.stetson.edu/secure/history/hy10302/nongenderlang.html

Article re pronoun: www.theguardian.com/media/mind-your-language/2015/jan/30/is-it-time-we-agreed-on-a-gender-neutral-singular-pronoun

www.grammarly.com/blog/2015/are-gender-neutral-pronouns-the-wave-of-the-future/

Eyes popping out of my head here; "Dear Ladies" is offensive? I'm partly horrified now that I might have offended people (ladies no less ) by using it and I'm partly thinking this is just insane.

How should they start an email to only women?

Not that fiendishly difficult, thankfully. There's the neutral, like colleagues, the option of using people's actual names, or the simple hi. All acceptable.

One reason that some people find "ladies" problematical is that it has class and behavioral connotations that some people, especially feminists, would prefer to avoid. It's not just another word for women.

*Dear All,

but this is a very casual address whereas Dear Ladies is more formal
oh how about reverting to Dear Madam*

I certainly would object to be addressed in a formal written communication as "Dear Ladies" , that really would be sexist and bad use of the English language. What I am trying to judge is in when it is used more informally when you would usually use the first names of the people you are writing to or emailing.

I wouldn't particularly like it but no way would I ever challenge it, or even bring it up.

I would just answer the email in your usual polite way. We can't expect never to be offended you know, we live in a diverse society, people rub us up the wrong way all the time. Just let it go.

Why is using a collective noun wrong then? Can I not say Dear IT colleagues? I wouldn't say Dear ladies myself (I'd say dear all or dear both - shorter!!), but if it is wrong is Dear Gents also wrong?

I am the captain of a women's fell running team , all very confident, independent women, I have sent out group e mails starting hi ladies, no one has ever complained especially when we have won a national ladies trophy!

Wouldn't bother me in the slightest and no to all your questions.

I'm often a bit flummoxed about how to address people in emails. Personally I'd favour launching straight into the text a lot of the time!

Dear sir/madam doesn't seem right if you have no idea who you are addressing.

Should you use first names for someone you don't know?

Hi? Good afternoon? Hello? comrade? Dear All?

Someone (from another country) was addressing me in an email as
Bro. Waffly. Fair enough as no reason why he would know my name is mostly female these days.

I expect they just thought it was the most polite thing to say.

I wouldn't care, it would not bother me in the slightest.

FoodPorn I hope I have made you realise that some of us really cringe when addressed this way.

For me they only way I would not feel (mildly) irritated is when it is from a very close friend or colleague.

I can remember when my new boss started last year he suggested I talk to the "ladies in the Team", about something. He was using it in an informal way, but it enabled me to make a very quick assessment of him as a manager. He was using it in a very patronising and hierarchical manner, my judgement about his management style and values based on this single word have since been proved right.

Certainly people are welcome to continue to use the term if they wish, but no doubt it will be helpful for them to realise that quite a few women and men will use it to make all sorts of assumptions about the person they are dealing with.

I wouldn't complain, but I wouldn't like it. I don't think you can assume that silence is approval.

Personally doesn't bother me at all and it wouldn't have occured to me that it bothered others. I prefer it to Dear Madam which I think makes me sound like a run a brothel... The worst though is Dear Mrs DHs first initial.

SilverBirch, its a bit like people who use "the girls in the office" or similar, isn't it? It's generally accompanied by a patronising tone and a gaping pay differential for those "girls".

The problem with 'Dear Ladies', from a man in the workplace, is that it singles your gender out as something unusual and worthy of note. "Ooh look, here I am addressing not just one woman, but several! All of you are women, isn't that interesting and unusual!" The same can be true of ostentatious displays of chivalry in the workplace. It places you as female first, colleague second.

Not always. If I was addressing an email to users of the female changing room or members of an all female work sports team or women's networking group then addressing them in a way that highlights their shared gender is relevant to the task at hand.

Is it a big deal? Would I challenge it? No, but it's not entirely harmless either.

I think most assume no offence because it is a common word. (Think ladies toilets, ladies day at races etc)

bikeandRun interestingly I feel addressing your group "dear ladies" in that scenario fine.

I guess context is everything.

Oh for goodness sake - I think you are just being hot and grumpy!! There is nothing wrong with the term 'Ladies'. It is actually POLITE. (Think 'Ladies and Gentlemen', without the Gentlemen bit!!)

No way could one say 'Dear Women', that is just not correct in any shape or form, 'Hi All' is too casual and sounds like the writer couldn't be bothered to find out anything about you, and 'Dear Colleagues' sounds (to me) as if someone is just about to call a Union meeting.

I guess they could have found out your names and addressed you both personally, but then would you have got offended if they had said 'Miss' instead of 'Mrs', or vice versa? Or 'Ms' might offend you too for all they know.
(As for replying to them, why not just use their first name?)

Winter absolutely spot on.

I guess context is everything.

Exactly. "Ladies" is just not generally a good idea in the workplace.

You sound a bit professionally offended, yabu.

It wouldn't even occur to me to be offended by such an address.

So my emails go to women that play tennis in ladies tennis tournaments ( that is the proper name) hi all is not formal enough, dear ladies seems the only suitable opener to me, unless I put dear players which just sounds wrong!

'Hi All' is too casual and sounds like the writer couldn't be bothered to find out anything about you

Well, if he bothered to find out anything about me, he would find out I don't like being addressed as one of the "Ladies."