Picky guest. Rude and ill-mannered or within his rights?

[AddToBasket]

Gah. I am throwing a themed dinner party for friends from a particular interest. (A bit like a medieval feast for people from a 12th Century interest group.) The menu is complicated and of the 'Take one plucked flamingo' school of recipes. It's a massive deal and will require military-like organisation to pull off but I'm looking forward to it.

It's at my house but I have a co-host. The partner of the co-host will not eat anything on the menu. There are four options for starter, five for main course, four for pudding. My co-host tells me he eat won't eat any of them.

He's not vegetarian or allergic, he just doesn't like vegetables or anything 'complicated'. I've been asked to serve a plain chicken breast. The menu includes a roast chicken salad (offensive because of watercress) and a plain couscous.

I think it's rude. AIBU?

OP, Your co-host needs to sort this out. If it's tricky for her to do, then it's just as tricky for you?

I don't think the request is rude in itself, though the DP/H's previous form indicates they are lacking in basic manners, but it's one to be handled by her/him, not you.

This reminds me of a party for five year olds I held. One child was determined she didn't want to play a game, and started to make a fuss. We explained to her the birthday child loved this game and we were playing it, but of course she didn't have to join in. She sat that game out and was raring to play the next one.
This party does not revolve around one man.
In the scheme of the meal, the work OP is putting in is the most important factor. Guest is making her feel bad, is stressing her by extra work and is a thoughtless prat by not taking responsibility for providing his own limited food.

Issues with ASD and eating problems have derailed the thread far away from the original scenario presented by Addtobasket OP I think it's fair to say YANBU

It happens a lot, and as the mother of a 24 year old young man who is very severely autistic It never cease to wonder why so much nowadays becomes 'but maybe the person is on the spectrum'.

It just seems to be the answer to everything nowdays - well here at least.

My post of 01/07 20:45 about the rules of interrupting wasn't particularly meant to be a definitive explanation of 'why some people interrupt'.

It was supposed to be showing you why it's not as easy as 'people with ASD need to learn the rules'.

I know the rule- don't speak when someone else is. But I can't apply it because of what I described earlier.

maidofstars said that the speaker was breaking the rules, which I guess means it's ok for me to. But I wouldn't recognise that's the case, and so probably wouldn't say anything for fear of being rude.

And don't forget, this is one rule. One part of one social interaction. How many others are there? Let's see, there's a rule about where to stand when you talk to someone. There's a rule about looking at the person who's talking (but not staring). There's a rule about what to talk about. There are rules about how to respond to the other person. There are rules about your voice (appropriate volume etc). There's a rule about ending the conversation. There's probably more that I'm not aware of yet. And for each of these rules, I have an internal monologue as described earlier, and I still need to try and take in what the other person is saying.

weebirdie I for one am glad of the increased awareness around ASD. I was only very recently diagnosed as an adult. I pass for NT the majority of the time, I mask in public and fall apart at home. But even though I pass for NT, my social behaviour doesn't quite cut it.

So for most of my life, I've been thought of as rude, immature, socially inappropriate. I've probably offended countless people without meaning to, or realising that I did. I just hope that not everyone judged me by NT standards.

Nobody is saying that this guy has ASD, or even probably has it. They're saying that it's one possible explanation (out of many) for food issues and social problems.

They are also saying that his behaviour and that of his DP is rude and ungracious towards OP because it is presented as a demand with no consideration or suggestion that they should provide a solution.
It is the whole scenario that is rude, not just the individual aspects. The total lack of consideration for anyone else.

Add I'll reply to this in length later but you just seem really annoyed he won't eat your food and so determined to force him to conform to your norms, or else exclude him. Nasty behaviour

No, its not nasty. Its reality based on the fact there is plenty of food being prepared for people to chose from. And unless its a known fact this guy is on the spectrum and/or has sensory issues there is absolutely no need for him to be catered for independently.

The world cannot revolve around the very slight possibility someone is on the spectrum. And all the more so because if its known someone is on the spectrum, and lets face it, its pretty obvious when someone is, people are usually very happy to do what it takes to make a guest feel welcome.

There is more chance the guy in question is just a fussy eater, or a person who likes to be the centre of attention, or a controlling husband, than there is of him being on the spectrum and for that reason the OP is well within her right to say - no, Im sorry, there is too much else going on in the kitchen for me to cater for your husband separately.

The world cannot revolve around the very slight possibility someone is on the spectrum. And all the more so because if its known someone is on the spectrum, and lets face it, its pretty obvious when someone is

No it isn't that's the problem. You cannot always tell who has ASD and who doesn't. Therefore as he's her friends partner maybe better to assume he's genuine.

Why is there MORE chance he's just being difficult?

weebirdie I for one am glad of the increased awareness around ASD.

I can well understand that you are but when the whole world seems to have to revolve around the possibility someone may be on the spectrum when there is no evidence whatsoever then its gone to far.

I have a son who's on the spectrum at the most severe end. Im very much aware that others may be also but I don't go about my day deliberately looking for the spectrum in others and approaching everything with a 'just in case someone here is on the spectrum' which is pretty much what a lot of people at MN want everyone to do.

Weebirdie I prefer to assume everyone is genuine until proven otherwise.

Why is there MORE chance he's just being difficult?

Its really quite simple - there are more awkward buggers in the world than there are those on the spectrum so the chance he is being difficult is greater.

Weebirdie I prefer to assume everyone is genuine until proven otherwise.

That would be 'your' version of genuine and how you see an issue with food and think - oh he's on the spectrum.

Weebirdie, usually when someone is being difficult there's a reason for it. It might not be ASD - he could have other issues around food. But I personally don't live in a world where every request is someone being difficult unless told otherwise. People generally aren't dicks

Weebirdie, usually when someone is being difficult there's a reason for it.

Yes, I agree, and Ive given you reason for people being difficult but you are intent on there having to be a deeper reason for it.

But I personally don't live in a world where every request is someone being difficult unless told otherwise.

Nor do I.

But he is being difficult whether he is on the spectrum or not.

If he'd said 'I'm really sorry, I can't eat anything on your menu but I still want to attend. Do you mind if I bring something I can eat?' that would be fine. But he isn't. He's expecting the host to cook just for him when she's already making 14 dishes. That's just rude.

I have a son at the severe end of the spectrum. Also I have a daughter who has Aspergers and she thinks this man is rude too.

When I'm eating a meal I enjoy I'm not even looking at what anyone else is eating

At the risk of sounding like a broken record, this is looking at everything from a you-centric perspective again, and expecting others to react and feel the same way you do about things. That is not a reasonable expectation.

Ask yourself why many people make a big deal about someone not eating /skipping a course in a restaurant. It's not necessarily because they are an arse - it is about the social status and function of sharing food and mealtimes. A non-participant can make people feel very awkward.

I think you do need to keep reminding yourself 'not everyone thinks the way I do, and it would be unreasonable to expect them to do so.'

Weebirdie, usually when someone is being difficult there's a reason for it.

There are, unfortunately, a good number of people who enjoy drama and attention, and deal with social situations on that basis.

Jassy, this is something I don't understand. A group meal is an occasion for friends to get together - so if everyone is being sociable, why does the food really matter? Do people even look at what others are eating? This is new to me, I've never known people to do that. Seems very strange!

I agree there are people who do things just for attention but I'd assume there are far more people with genuine problems and I'd rather treat everyone kindly than assume someone's being horrible

The thing is I can be considered as rude even when I don't want to. That's because I tend to follow a different sets of rules (I'm not british) and even though I'm trying hard to 'learn' all the british intricaties, I still haven't got them all.

For someone who isn't on the 'serious' end of the spectrum, so in effect, they can function quite well within the society and 'pass for NT', the issue for me is more about tolerance of other way of doing things rather than a NT/SN issue. After all, there are so many things that coiuld explain why someone is doing things in a rude/different way. A friend of mine has some MH problems. She still pass as 'OK' but is seen as rude. I do too for the reasons above. etc etc
So maybe the answer is a bit more flexibility as to what is OK to accept rather than saying 'well he/she MIGHT have some SN, therefore we need to cater for him/her just in case'.
The other issue of course is that, if that person has some SN and can/is willing to learn, then they are missing out on a big opportunity to learn the 'rules' if no one is ever telling them it's not on.

Having said that, in this particular case, there are so many things that are wrong....

lashes actually even with a meeting with friends, yes the food is important. Lots of people woud feel self concious if they were eating and one person wasn't.
It's also the idea that if you aren't eating that the person has been rude to bring you somewhere not suitable for you.
If you have been invited to eat at someone's house then it's even worse. That's why a lot of people have been saying 'No you don't say anything, you just move your food arond and fill up on bread'. Because making it clear that you won't eat that food is a sign that the cook isn't a good cook/hasn't been a good host by taking your preferences into account etc etc

If you have VERY close friends that DO know why you are particularly sensitive, they will cater for that.
Most people won't because you are making them feel bad about themselves.

Maman that's interesting. To me that sounds like people reading far too much into someone else's business, do people really have time to spend worrying about why someone else isn't eating?! Just get in with your own meal surely?!

I have been at meals where people have kept checking if I'm okay because I haven't eaten anything and it has infuriated me because once I e said I'm fine, I expect them to back off (and take it quite badly that they're implying I'm not being honest!). Maybe those are the people you are on about?

Jassy, this is something I don't understand. A group meal is an occasion for friends to get together - so if everyone is being sociable, why does the food really matter? Do people even look at what others are eating? This is new to me, I've never known people to do that. Seems very strange!

Can you accept that you don't need to understand it for it to be real, or for you to take it into account?

Again, you're showing a mindset of 'if I don't understand why people behave or feel this way, it must not be valid and therefore I'm free to ignore it. Because their feelings and reactions don't make sense to me, they don't really matter and it is better if they just get over it'.

You've displayed that again in your response to Maman's post - there is a large focus on how the behaviour of others makes you feel, but you dismiss the impact of your behaviour on them because you don't understand the motivation behind it - and therefore you are treating it as wrong or irrelevant.

So agree with SGB.

This occasion isn't about a group of friends hanging out, in which case you'd of course suit friends with special requirements. BUT as nearly everyone has said, It's A Gourmet Event. Presumably the conversation will focus on the food, too, so what's the chicken breast person going to be able to contribute? Or should the conversation be tailored to their requirements too? All that lovely food the OP has prepared should be ignored because it leaves out the person who is not participating.

Jassy I accept its real, but that doesn't mean I accept its a good idea just because the majority do it.

I don't tend to have much sympathy when the behaviour doesn't affect them - me not eating doesn't affect them, unless they're being extremely sensitive. Me cartwheeling naked on tabled WOULD affect them (I don't do this!)so they would have a reason to be pissed off. But me not eating doesn't stop THEM eating or doing anything at all

I don't mind questions either. Curiousity is fine, if someone wants to know why I have food issues and asks me I'll tell them.

I apply this to other people by the way - if someone's behaving in a way I think is weird but isn't affecting me I just ignore it. I expect the same back

Jassy I accept its real, but that doesn't mean I accept its a good idea just because the majority do it.

So what's your goal? To change the way everyone thinks and feels to fit the model you are comfortable with? Expect them to conform to your personal norms? That seems about as reasonable as the opposite standpoint.

I don't tend to have much sympathy when the behaviour doesn't affect them - me not eating doesn't affect them, unless they're being extremely sensitive.

There you go again - you are judging and invalidating the emotions, reactions and socialisations of others based on your own norms, while objecting when they do that to you. You don't think your behaviour should affect them unless they are extremely sensitive, but you are not prepared to allow for the fact that it does, as Maman set out earlier. Socialisation is complex and often irrational. That doesn't undermine its power over people and their emotions. It is possible for someone's enjoyment of a meal to be diminished because they are concerned about another person not participating.

I apply this to other people by the way - if someone's behaving in a way I think is weird but isn't affecting me I just ignore it. I expect the same back

Yes, but in social interactions what you think is affecting someone isn't the same as what they feel is affecting them. You aren't prepared to make allowances for others - but you expect them to make allowances for you.

Can you see the double standard?

Lashes, I'm from one of the rude direct countries that were mentioned in previous posts and find the co-host's partner's request very rude - as would my entire social circle from said country. This really is not just a British thing.