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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Picky guest. Rude and ill-mannered or within his rights?

896 replies

AddToBasket · 29/06/2015 17:34

Gah. I am throwing a themed dinner party for friends from a particular interest. (A bit like a medieval feast for people from a 12th Century interest group.) The menu is complicated and of the 'Take one plucked flamingo' school of recipes. It's a massive deal and will require military-like organisation to pull off but I'm looking forward to it.

It's at my house but I have a co-host. The partner of the co-host will not eat anything on the menu. There are four options for starter, five for main course, four for pudding. My co-host tells me he eat won't eat any of them.

He's not vegetarian or allergic, he just doesn't like vegetables or anything 'complicated'. I've been asked to serve a plain chicken breast. The menu includes a roast chicken salad (offensive because of watercress) and a plain couscous.

I think it's rude. AIBU?

OP posts:
StatisticallyChallenged · 01/07/2015 13:42

Dinosaursroar, look at the conversation upthread with lashes where Chronically and I were trying to explain why,in some circumstances, it's not fair to even ask. Lashesandlipstick was finding it difficult to understand why it was not ok to ask people to cater for her. She has asd which is often characterised by an inability to understand other people's point of view. (Sorry for talking about you lashes, just trying to explain myself!)

So a "fussy" person who doesn't understand why other people would find their food issues an irritant certainly isn't evidence that they're just awkward and don't have a specific underlying reason. It could in fact suggest the exact opposite.

StatisticallyChallenged · 01/07/2015 13:49

I take offense because your comments are offensive and borderline disablist. Not taking from it what I want, but taking from it what you said.

Sgb -it would depend. I'm guessing it will be more buffet style in which case I'd go and just not really eat. If it's sit down with every course plated then I would probably avoid. Unless it was something recurring and I felt being shut out was becoming problematic. I don't drink alcohol and hate drunk people but if I avoided all the events involving booze I'd be even more lonely then I am.

Kintsugi · 01/07/2015 14:16

This particular instance would seem to be the equivelant of an email evangelical non drinker going to a wine tasting event..its not going to end well

Trickydecision · 01/07/2015 14:34

Addto, sorry your Roman feast is totally unconvincing.
Why do dormice not figure in your menu?
I suggest you get hold of some (try you local zoo) and present one without sauce or watercress to the irritating guest.

LashesandLipstick · 01/07/2015 14:58

Solid I would absolutely go because I don't believe I should be shut away due to my disability. I personally would have asked if plain food could be made (and probably offended the OP judging by people's responses!) or if I could bring my own. That is it, no more would be said about it, I don't see why it would ruin the meal..

LashesandLipstick · 01/07/2015 15:00

So a "fussy" person who doesn't understand why other people would find their food issues an irritant certainly isn't evidence that they're just awkward and don't have a specific underlying reason. It could in fact suggest the exact opposite.

This. I had never even thought it was "rude" to ask someone if they could cook something plain, in fact I thought I was being helpful by explaining what I liked so there'd be no awkwardness!

So just because someone appears to be "being rude" doesn't mean they are - they might genuinely not know they have offended you!

BrendaBlackhead · 01/07/2015 15:10

Sorry - not much of an excuse.

If I spit in the street I don't think most people would have much truck with my saying, "Oh? Is it rude? Who was to know?" Or if I failed to thank someone for a present, let a door swing in someone's face etc etc.

How can you not be aware that causing a host a problem - in whatever shape or form - is something to be avoided or at least apologised for. Dh is partially disabled. A quick, "Sorry to be a pain, but..." (usually regarding chairs) diffuses the situation. There's no need to be entitled and precious.

LashesandLipstick · 01/07/2015 15:15

Brenda if you had a condition that meant you didn't pick up on certain things or you were from a foreign country, then it would

Floggingmolly · 01/07/2015 15:16

Vegetables are not "complicated"... Tell the bugger to stay home, ffs!

andyourlittledogtoo · 01/07/2015 15:17

Lashes your last post actually made me laugh - it is possible to be extremely rude without that having been your chief motivation in doing something! It may be unintentional rudeness, but it's still rudeness nonetheless!

LashesandLipstick · 01/07/2015 15:19

And, if someone is accidentally rude, how is that the person being deliberately irritating which is what we're talking about?

andyourlittledogtoo · 01/07/2015 15:23

I think it might come under a particular subset of ill manners that includes things like 'thoughtlessness' 'lack of consideration for others ', 'self-centredness'! Being polite and 'not rude' involves putting a little extra effort in to imagine how your actions may make others feel, rather than just thinking about consequences in terms of ones own needs.

LashesandLipstick · 01/07/2015 15:27

And

Someone might think they're being helpful by

  1. avoiding refusing food at the meal and drawing attention to it
  2. offering suggestions to the host
  3. avoiding potentially vomiting at the meal
  4. trying to find ways they can be included

So it's not as simple as "being self centred"

MamanOfThree · 01/07/2015 15:27

Statistic I have a genuine question.
Someone can act in a way that will be seen rude by most people as in this case.
It could be that that person has in fact ASD, major sensitivity issues, food issues related to other MH problems, whatever.
So the OP can/should be taking that into account and accomodate the 'picky' person 'just in case'.

Now if you DO accomodate that person and he is actually just a plain rude fussy eater that wants all the attention on him, is that right to pander to him like this? Is it right to bend over backwards for someone who is taking you for a ride?

I personnally would say that both are unacceptable. You shouldn't bend over backwards for someone who is plain rude just as you shouldn't make things harder work for someone who has genuine problem.
But how do you know if someone is one or the other?

andyourlittledogtoo · 01/07/2015 15:29

So just because someone appears to be "being rude" doesn't mean they are - they might genuinely not know they have offended you!

Just because someone lacks the self awareness and social intelligence to realise that they are being rude, doesn't mean that they are not indeed being rude! Being rude isn't about your chief intention being to piss someone off!

LashesandLipstick · 01/07/2015 15:29

MamanOfThree I'd rather risk catering to someone rude than automatically assume everyone is horrible and end up excluding people who aren't trying to be nasty

LashesandLipstick · 01/07/2015 15:30

And if you have a completely different idea of what rude is then I don't see how you can say someone is definitely being rude. It seems subjective judging by people's reactions

MamanOfThree · 01/07/2015 15:30

But the lack of social intelligence will stop them from knowing what else they could have done and what has been irritating the host.
ie they will kknow something has gone worng but won't know exactely why.

MamanOfThree · 01/07/2015 15:39

Lash I think it's harder than that.

I'm battling with that daily (I have one DH and one dc with AS). And some times, dc will act in a way that is 'rude' in general terms. Sometimes it's because of the AS and he has missed a major clue. Sometimes, he is just pushing boundaries like any other child would.
Sometimes DH is behaving in a way that is rude for most people and it's the effect of AS (often because he gets overwhelmed and he will just shut down and 'ignore' people talking to him). Sometimes, he is just being an arse like any other human being.

I can NOT assume every single time that they are behaving the way they are it's because of AS. It wouldn't be good, neither for me, nor for them.

I think it's true for any other social issue. Of course, one can assume that the person has AS/whatever other SN 'just in case' but the effect of being taken for a ride again and again by the ones who don't have an SN (and there will be plenty of them!) will have an impact.
And I suspect that one of the consequences would be very detrimental to people with SN. I imagine easily people going for a blanket statement along the lines of 'well I've accomodated him once but he will never be coming back' which in effect will be closing a hell of a lot of doors for people with SN (no second chance)

andyourlittledogtoo · 01/07/2015 15:43

Yes exactly it is about what is perceived as rude - so if you unwittingly go round pissing people off, whether you intended to or not, it may be that you need to work on your manners. The whole concept of rudeness has to do with the way your behaviour is received. So although someone may be quite innocently putting their foot in it, if they do want to avoid causing offence then it would make sense for them to familiarise themselves with the social mores of their cultural setting. But of course if someone stubbornly refuses to do so, they start to move into the intentionally rude, 'obnoxious' category!

LashesandLipstick · 01/07/2015 15:46

MamanOfThree of course people with AS can also be a PITA at times, wasn't meaning to suggest they can't.

Getting taken for a ride is terrible but in the situation like the meal I really think it's better to assume the man has good intentions rather than to assume he is being Akward. It's the rather 10 guilty free than an innocent hung thing

LashesandLipstick · 01/07/2015 15:47

And

I don't think it's as simple as that. Some social norms seem passive aggressive to me, so I'm not going to go out of my way to join in with them. That's not obnoxious - I don't believe you have to "fit in" in order to be "polite"

andyourlittledogtoo · 01/07/2015 15:50

Do you mind me asking exactly which passive aggressive social norms you are referring to?

LashesandLipstick · 01/07/2015 15:52

And

No not at all!

For me it seems passive aggressive to say "oh it's okay" when it really isn't, or to offer to do something you don't want to do hoping the person offers so you don't have to. Same for not telling people when they've annoyed you, excluding people without telling them why, that sort of thing

ollieplimsoles · 01/07/2015 15:53

This thread is enthralling...