to think we all need to take responsibility for challenging islamophobia

[karbonfootprint]

It is so common and so hurtful to some of our fellow citizens. I don't think any of us should let it pass when we hear it, in private, but especially in public.

"It is so common.."

I have to take you word for that - unless you are generalising about the national media or is it from your personal experience.

I do not know not have ever met any Islamic or asian people (other than some waiters at restaurants a past boyfriend insisted we visited) so maybe I am insulated / isolated from the situation? I don't know...

Is this a big problem in the UK?

I think cleanmachine is being a bit unfair. I live in an area of many Muslims and I don't see outrage, anywhere. Or, to put it slightly differently, I have seen displays of spontaneous outrage where I live, but they've been about non Muslim issues. So, street demonstrations do happen here, very occasionally. Just not about the Tunisian shootings, 7/7, Charlie Hebdo, etc.

So, I'm not looking in the Daily Mail. In fact, I wouldn't use that paper, even for for toilet paper.

White terrorists are political, brown terrorists are Islamic.

Struggling a bit to think of a recent, white/wider-European act of religious terror (of any kind)

White terrorists are political, brown terrorists are Islamic.

Struggling a bit to think of a recent, white/wider-European act of religious terror (of any kind)

Struggling a bit to think of a recent, white/wider-European act of religious terror (of any kind)

Come on. The distinction between religion and politics is very, very thin: both are terrorism in pursuit of a cause. Was Brevik religious or political? How different was his ideology? The debate then is about to what extent Brevik represents the "white community" versus the extent to which the Charlie Hebdo killers represents the "Muslim community", which is what this thread is about, but Brevik is precisely the same sort of actor.

Maybe, or maybe we've forgotten that, the 1605, Gunpowder Plot was a Catholic plot against the government of James I/VI. We have know explicit religious terror in Britain, just not for centuries. So long, in fact, that we've forgotten what it looks like. I think that's one of the reasons why we're struggling so much with extremist Islam. I'm sure Richard I wouldn't have been bothered by the idea of it. Mind you, he'd have been raising money for a ship and horses, though, by way of response.

Was Brevik religious or political? How different was his ideology?

his ideology was very different and casting it as the same will take our eyes off the problem. Right wing european extremists have very different ideologies and grievances than muslim extremists.

Brevik was out of his mind, believing himself to be a sort of "knights templar" writing weird manifestos about his right wing cruzade.
He massacred labour youth kids at camp, fgs, regardless of their ethnicity. He was a lone wolf, and I think he has more in common with the lone gun men of America, than other extremists.

I dont think he represents "the white community" or Norwegians, any more than I believe Osama bin Laden represented Muslims, or I thikn Abu Quatdada was a spokes person for British Muslims

I'm struggling to think of the last time that a white christian machine gunned a muslim holiday resort. I find it easy to remember 9/11, 7/7 and last Friday.
This post is not islamophobia, just a statement of history.

I'm Muslim and don't see that I need to march any where shouting not in my name. Frankly I am too busy working, paying tax and contributing to society. Let's not forget that ISIS and alike kill more Muslims than any, including men and children who were paying in a mosque, on the holiest day in the holiest month of the Islamic year last Friday. That alone should show people that their actions are nothing to do with God or religion.

They are also not representative of Muslims who are of many different colours and cultures. Turks, Albanians, Indonesians, many not wearing beards or burkas and humans, but if the British media are anything to go Muslims are all Asian hate preacher/clerics on benefits. Many of you being highly ignorant in this post probably now and like someone who you probably didn't even realise was a Muslim. Unless of course you choose friends on the basis of religion.

I've been called islamophobic for telling a Muslim lady who said to my face (knowing full well I'm a lesbian married to a woman) that "being gay is just wrong and I don't agree with it" that her views were downright ridiculous.

If I was a Christian and Christians were behaving in a similar way I'd definitely be distancing myself from them.

MrsWhirling
Most of us don't choose friends on the basis of religion, nor do we murder them on the same basis.

It's not about religion though is it? If it was they wouldn't kill other Muslims. And in my experience Christians are no more accepting of homosexuality than than other religions. Wise up people. This is political.

Those that believe all Muslims are terrorists are ignorant and stupid. TerroriSts are extremists and what they practice has nothing to do with Islam. I judge one person on their behaviour

Red - "I'm struggling to think of the last time that a white christian machine gunned a muslim holiday resort. I find it easy to remember 9/11, 7/7 and last Friday.
This post is not islamophobia, just a statement of history."

I'd imagine there have been a lot more Muslims killed by the predominately white Christian West than vice versa in the past 25 years.

I would say we all need to take more responsibility for challenging Islam, not islamophobia. I would be rightly mocked by most people if I said I believed that the wood sprites living at the bottom of my garden had written a book telling me how to live my life. I would be mocked even more if I tried to get other people to believe in my wood sprites and their book. No reason why any religion should not be subject to the same level of mockery.

Not all followers of Islam are terrorists but (nearly) all terrorists in the west are hard line Islamists. I think that tells you something, and it's not that Islam is a peaceful religion.

Those of you who are saying ISIS aren't motivated by religion need to brush up on your knowledge of different Islamic sects. ISIS are Sunni Muslims who think everyone else (including Shia Muslims) are infidels becuase they don't follow the same interpretation of the Koran. The Muslims they are killing are are mostly not Sunni. Apart of course from those who are gay, drink alcohol etc. - not sure if they care which Muslim sect they belong to.

"It's not about religion though is it? If it was they wouldn't kill other Muslims. And in my experience Christians are no more accepting of homosexuality than than other religions."

Isis kills Shia Muslims because they see them as not "proper" Muslims - i.e apostates. Indeed, Isis sees the "weeding out" of tge apostates as being more important than dealing with the infidels. So yes, it is about religion. Explicitly so.

As for homosexuality... whilst Western countries seem to be on a march to legalise gay marriage, in most Muslim countries homosexuality itself is illegal and it is frequently punishable by death.

But don't let facts get in the way of a good argument.

I am against Islam, but also Catholics
Etc. Religion is the root of all evil

another thing is that the killers deliberately carried out this massacre during Ramadan as they believe it makes their reward in heaven greater, where does this ideology come from?

I know Christianity has issues but it's core message is to put others before yourself etc.

Botox, I agree that religion has caused a huge amount of evil in the world. I was wondering the other day what the world would be like if there had never been any religion. It would be nice to think it would be a more peaceful place but sadly there seem to be plenty of wars and conflicts where religion is not involved.

Yes there has been, but the majority think have been fuelled by religion induced ignorance. There will always be evil people, that human nature I guess.