to think we all need to take responsibility for challenging islamophobia

[karbonfootprint]

It is so common and so hurtful to some of our fellow citizens. I don't think any of us should let it pass when we hear it, in private, but especially in public.

Muslims shouldn't have to apologise but they should publicly condemn and do so visibly in the form of mass marches etc. This sends out a powerful message of reassurance and unity to the wider populace and will help to allay fears.

Silence is (wrongly) taken as approval. That much is clear and as such it is in the muslim community's own interests to do this. If there had not been such vocal and ugly Pro-Islamist demonstrations, then I don't think there would be as many as calls as there are for muslims to be seen to be doing something.

It would also send a message to sympathisers and IS that actually their interpretation is utterly rejected. I don't think hardcore members will be in the least bit dissuaded from their murderous ways by such anti protests, however those on the periphery of sympathy may be persuaded otherwise.

The rhetoric also needs to change from 'this is all the Wests fault' which is a powerful pull. The muslim community needs to start speaking out in a balanced manner and start acknowledging the faults and imperfections in Muslim countries that have also contributed to the situation we're in.

However all the demos in the world are not going to change the contents of the Quran and Hadiths and while they remain, fanatics will be inspired to follow through on the conflicted messages contained within the various sources. Ordinary individual muslims need to start looking at the ethics and morality of their faith and come up with plausible reasons to ignore the violence, misogony and hate contained within their texts. Until you do this, the violence and bloodshed will continue.

Yes, but wouldn't it change the dynamic of the debate massively? If some large proportion of Britain's 2.5 or so million Muslims marched in London en masse against ISIS? That would change the way most are viewed. We also need a figurehead who can speak regularly. I know the Muslim Council of Britain speak after atrocities in Britain. But, someone really needs to come to the front, otherwise criticism of Islam and Muslims is going to sit in its place as is happening at the moment (a bit like the empty chair for DC in the leadership debates) British Muslims are being represented by an empty chair at the moment.

MistressMia

Well said.

I know the Muslim Council of Britain speak after atrocities in Britain

That's the MCB all of whose senior members at various points spoke in favour of murdering British Citizens, yes? Just checking.

As always on these threads agree 100% with Mistress Mia

Don't know him all that well, but, is Dr Shuja Shafi known for recommending killing people?

Oh for goodness sake, I was speaking to my Muslim friend yesterday. I in no way expected her to apologise for, condemn or bring up the recent attack just in a Sunday pleasant conversation just as I don't apologise to her all of the time for the likes if the DM, the Uk's involvement in the Middle East and for carving up Palestine.

And I'm worried too about the spread of Islam, especially more extreme elements but stop telling ordinary Muslims going about their business thatbthey should be begging forgiveness etc - that sounds really prejudiced.

Bambambini - no poster has suggested people with a Muslim faith should apologise or beg for forgiveness ??

Condemn - yes, that could be helpful. MistressMia has put it well why that would helpful and benefit all concerned.

is Dr Shuja Shafi known for recommending killing people?

Has he withdrawn the MCB's support for the Istanbul Declaration? I don't believe so. It's the MCB's refusal to accept that what Daud Abdullah signed means what it says which led (at last) to the UK government breaking links with them.

In short: the MCB's representative signed a document which clearly calls for attacks on British civilians and servicemen. Blears called it on him. In the cartoony lawyer style of such organisations, they threatened to sue the government (it's where Galloway learnt his schtick from). The government, quite properly, told them sue or shut up, but obviously cannot discuss anything while legal action is pending. Six years later, the MCB is still threatening to sue (it hasn't sued, but hasn't withdrawn the threat), is still a signatory to the Istanbul declaration, and is still persona non grata with government.

iaindale.blogspot.co.uk/2009/04/exclusive-blears-tells-mcb-deputy-chair.html

Things haven't changed since, because the MCB haven't changed its position.

If there had not been such vocal and ugly Pro-Islamist demonstrations, then I don't think there would be as many as calls as there are for muslims to be seen to be doing something

^ This.

Rightly or wrongly, this is how it seems.

Of course Muslims should not apologise for ISIS, of course not!

Infanta - ok slight exaggeration but you want them out marching and condemning publicly - how publicly and how much marching will be to your liking - maybe you could write a memo for them.

If they want to - yes, but they shouldn't feel forced into just to curry public favour and to show thatbthey aren't a terrorist. Stop telling law abiding peacefulMuslims what they should and shouldn't be doing. Sounds like the McCarthy witch hunts might be starting up again.

Right, OK. Seems the previous incumbent, Daud Abdullah was a particular kind of fanatical arsewipe, and the current one is just sidestepping the whole issue. Well, the whole thing might come to a head, depending on whether Cameron gets bogged down in the treacle that is religious diplomacy, or if he gets to continue his current bull in a china shop approach to Muslim relations. Time will tell.

Here is Boris

OP YANBU

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/i-wish-the-bbc-would-stop-calling-it-islamic-state--david-cameron-unleashes-frustration-on-broadcaster-10351885.html

David Cameron's latest thoughts.

'Sounds like the McCarthy witch hunts might be starting up again.'

Bambambini - what make you do this exaggeration thing you do!

Maybe one march would be enough and helpful - showing solidarity, that we are all in this together

Boris and Cameron have a good point there wanting to call this Islamic State group something else - not Islamic State.

Sorry the above wrongly posted.

Inkanta - what if they just want to get on with their lives. Why are you demanding a reaction, acts from a certain group of people just because they are muslim? You are discriminating against muslims.

Our male neighbour totally ignores us when we say hello and pass him in stair.

He isn't Muslim. Just rude.

Fanjo, I think you might have misinterpreted him. He's probably doing it to be polite. He's probably a secret feminist and respects you too much to talk to you. I imagine he's an fervent litter picker-upper too.

Bambambini - no not true. There you go again! I'm not demanding and not discriminating - stop it! I made a suggestion as you asked. How about one march I said - would that be helpful?

It feels like you're trying to close down discussion?

Lets discuss - without drama and exaggeration.

ok slight exaggeration but you want them out marching and condemning publicly - how publicly and how much marching will be to your liking - maybe you could write a memo for them.

I would like muslims to explain with justification from the koran why IS is wrong. Or explain why the parts of the koran that IS use as justification are being misinterpreted or wrong.

the problem is that moderate/ordinary muslims and IS agree on what's the greatest book in the world. One of these two groups is wrong in either reading the text or interpreting it.

Why are you demanding a reaction, acts from a certain group of people just because they are muslim? You are discriminating against muslims.

if someone were using my favourite book to justify horrific acts, I would feel compelled to react.

Gemauve--Christ almighty, that stuff about the Istanbul Declaration is terrible!

David Cameron has missed a trick which Obama learned, to call them Daesh. They really, really hate being called that.