to think we all need to take responsibility for challenging islamophobia

[karbonfootprint]

It is so common and so hurtful to some of our fellow citizens. I don't think any of us should let it pass when we hear it, in private, but especially in public.

I think one of the BIG problems is, Muslims world wide have been so to be very quick to march and protest, over things that its hard for people outside the faith to understand, like the cartoon thing.

I think this is why there is perhaps more expectation of the followers to be seen to also marching, rallying against what is being done in the name of their faith Isis.

An idea?

Gemauve Sat 27-Jun-15 15:36:50

so silly of me, didnt see this

Absolutely inkanta. Was it you or someone else who mentioned upthread about cultural differences and appearing rude. There is a Quranic saying which I like, to the effect of "I have not created you (ie humankind) from nations and tribes except that you may know one another". Meaning, wide differences in customs, language, food values are to be expected, so learn about one another.

• KoalaKoo Sat 27-Jun-15 15:43:00

I know what you mean I have had this many many times, but not because I have been wearing an unusual coat, hat, head dress! I used to be a colorful dresser and in my provincial but madly rural village it was too much for them, and I had names, sneering, nasty songs sung at me. I am white and was wearing western clothes, apart from the Beanie I had for a while.

It was not to do with race, or anything but simply, standing out a bit and being different, people dont like it, some people dont.

'Meaning, wide differences in customs, language, food values are to be expected, so learn about one another.'

Yes I agree.

But because I was wearing

Maxxytoe, your statement is incorrect and I think you have no basis for it whatsoever. I have never heard of a real life muslim man who things women are less. I cannot think of the last time a muslim man besides family has addressed me by my first name fof example, it would be disrespectful and over familiar.
You might now be assuming that they just speak at me and show their disrespect of women in this way?
This is incorrect, I am usually addressed by a respectful female title.
It is these negative assumptions and sterotypes that are really fueling the flames of hatred I think.

As for learning about one another though, I got general impression western girls are looked on as slutty and more conservative families tell dc not to mix with the dreadful western children?

Meaning, wide differences in customs, language, food values are to be expected, so learn about one another.

But that's not what you're advocating. You're saying "so, your neighbour is rude to you because he won't speak to women, that's your problem, he's not doing anything wrong". What you're saying is that non-Muslims should be completely accepting of all Muslim cultural mores, but Muslims have no need at all to pay attention to anyone else's cultural mores.

if you ignore people and refuse to speak to them, you are being rude. If you aren't willing to be polite in the culture you're living, that's your problem, not anyone else's. Like most employers, I worked on the principle that people who refuse to shake women's hand get their CVs thrown in the bin, and my former HR director said openly that he would be perfectly happy to take an ET, or even an EAT, on the topic.

Koala I think your lucky, I was at school with several girls from Muslim families and two in particular were suffering, not allowed to open door, look man in face, and was being set up for arranged marriage, she always looked sad, and had other what I would call highly in vasive things happen to her.

I have never heard of a real life muslim man who things women are less.

A senior Muslim cleric in Australia has sparked a furore by comparing women who do not wear a headscarf to "uncovered meat", implying that they invited sexual assault. Sheik Taj Aldin al-Hilali delivered his comments in a religious address on adultery to around 500 worshippers in Sydney last month, but they only came to the attention of the wider public when they were published in the Australian paper today.

Sheik Hilali was quoted as saying: "If you take out uncovered meat and place it outside ... without cover, and the cats come to eat it ... whose fault is it, the cats' or the uncovered meat's? The uncovered meat is the problem. If she was in her room, in her home, in her hijab [the headdress worn by some Muslim women], no problem would have occurred."

Rosesare, it is a horrible experience and can unfortunately change the way you view thr world. I hope you got sway for a new life. But I dont think this great need to be overtly unpleasant to people who are different existed 20/30 years ago? Respect and tolerance for others, especially those who are different, seems yo be one of the great British values that are on the way out.

Roses thats very sad. I know 100s and 100s of muslims and I have only personally heard of one case of "forced" marriage and that was a male. "Arranged" marriage is another much misunderstood concept most likely.

I'm not assuming ?
i was called a white slut and asked why I was out late at night without a chaperone (chaperone!!!) by a taxi driver once when I refused to tip him.
Whilst we're at it actually,
1000s of white underage girls about ten minutes from me have been groomed, trafficked and raped by predominantly muslim gangs for years.
Respect for women ?
dont make me laugh

Gemauve - I think it's useful to at least understand the thought processes behind these behaviours even if you disagree and find it hard to be accepting of them. We just have to keep talking about it.

Koala, I think your mistaken, I think we are far more tolerant now but of course thanks to ISIS its under great strain.

There was lots of racism when for instance waves of immigration came from Jamaica etc.

It was not pleasant Koala but it didn't worry me too much.
Again I think your very very lucky.

I met another girl who had to leave and run away because she fell in love with white boy, her own parents were relaxed - ish but unfortunate she had a very hard line conservative uncle who was a scholar or Imman, and she brought shame on them. Was scared to go home.

Maxxy, and you think this is Islamic behaviour???

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/asian-men-say-no-to-the-misery-of-arranged-marriage-2323340.html

www.mirror.co.uk/news/real-life-stories/forced-arranged-marriage-young-british-2715692

Each year 10,000 take place in the UK, and last month a shocking ITV documentary caught 12 Muslim clerics agreeing to marry off girls aged only 14.

Those youngsters who put up a fight often fall victim to honour-based violence, which can end in murder. even now Ayesha lives in hiding to protect herself.

I dont feel especially lucky when i can rarely leave my house without being insulted in some way just for existing. This is the daily reality of things.

Well who is to say it is or isn't?
Muslims don't have the equivalent of a pope
ISIS think what they are doing is right and thousands of Muslims are joining them
I don't know what is Islamic and what isn't
What I do know is , what ive read and experienced myself about Islam has not been positive and I'm sick it being asked to be tolerant towards the intolerant

I wouldn't assume that the neighbour was being polite. As a young woman I lived in a Muslim area and I had very many older men cross the road so they didn't walk past me, it was done in such a way as to be obvious and disdainful. The male shopkeepers wouldn't speak to me and normally wouldn't look at me either. The young men were very threatening, riding bikes at me along footpaths and only swerving at the last second, crowding around and banging on a phone box I was using, and once slapping me in the face when I answered back after being abused.

When I have dealt with Muslim men in my working life I have had many tell me that I can't speak to them and I've needed to call on the support of male colleagues.

I'm afraid it has made me suspicious.

Gemauve - I think it's useful to at least understand the thought processes behind these behaviours

Life is too short to worry about why rude people are rude. It's not my responsibility to educate or understand them.

My bf has started seeing a Muslim man, his sister has been completely disowned by her family as she has started seeing a white man but the son is allowed to 'let off steam' and 'get it out of his system' before he settles down with a Muslim girl. The sis was not allowed any non Muslim friends growing up. This isn't a über conservative family on the face of it, the mum is white British and just married a Muslim man but she has admitted that she has to give him full authority when it comes to family matters.

This man obviously thinks less of his daughter than his son. I would never marry a Muslim as I think te religion is sexist so would worry any baby girls would be disadvantaged. Genuine question to Muslims on here- do you not worry about this? I think I would but know I may be a product of negative media reporting and not having the full picture.

Again, probably because they don't report about normal Muslim families, I tend to think most Muslim families are like this, e.g. Most Muslims would prefer their kids to play with other Muslims - what is everyone else's experience of this?

I have only personally heard of one case of "forced" marriage and that was a male.

Female. Widely publicised. Dead. But feel free to continue your denial.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Shafilea_Ahmed

But maxxy thats the whole point, you dont know for sure what is islamic and what is just abhorrent behaviour, so please dont assume these things are part of islam, at least try to find out. Example, using fould language or saying names or unpleasant nicknames is not allowed in Islam.
You will have noticed that not one single muslim nation has spoken in support of isis. There are billions and billions of muslims in the world and a very tiny % "joining" isis (although I think much of this is the result of a different type of grooming of vulnerable young people.