To think DP should maybe find out a bit about babies, since we're having one in four months?

[hearthattack]

I don't want to paint him as a villain, or the stereotype 'useless' man. He's kind, thoughtful and conscientious. He's interested in my pregnancy, feels my bump all the time and asks how baby is. I'm sure he'll make a great Dad. But...

When I found out I was pregnant (planned) five months ago I bought a couple of basic books about pregnancy and becoming parents. DP hasn't picked them up once. He sometimes asks questions or makes statements that make me wince with his lack of basic knowledge. eg 'He doesn't have ears yet does he?' in response to me saying baby I thought baby had jumped at a loud noise. 'Can't we just pop them in a backpack with their head sticking out?' when I was looking at slings on line.

Last night in bed, after one of these questions, I got really cross, shook his arms off me and told him he needs to do some bloody reading and find out some stuff for himself. He instantly looked hurt and I thought I might have been bit harsh. I said that I didn't want to be the person 'in the know' so he can defer to me all the time because it's not fair that I should have to carry the burden of worrying about things like is their head position right, are they too hot/cold, how do I recognise signs of illness etc entirely on my own.

His response to this was to say I could ask the midwife.

I in no way think you can learn how to be a parent from a book (the whole industry around 'professional parenting' kind of bugs me too). I get that we will have to just make some stuff up as we go along and figure it out as best we can. DPs attitude, in other areas of life, is something I admire about him and has stood him well in the past; he's capable and successful and balances my tendency to over think. I'd just like him to show willing and give me a bit of moral support.

Am I being unreasonable to have lost patience with his laid back approach to impending parenthood? Am I right to be finally putting my foot down and telling him he needs to step it up? Or am I being a naggy old bitch and a worry guts?

I wouldn't worry- mine is the same. He is really interested in the bump but the only thing he googles is the American presidential election! He will learn it all as it comes along, you can't expect him to be the same. My DH even said "do we really need a pram, can't we just carry her until she can walk?"
Haha he has no idea and I got annoyed at first but now realise that he will just learn as he goes and that everyone is different in their preparations.

Being laid back is the best kind of parent I think, I have hardly read any parenting books and just go on feeling and it seems to have worked last 2 years

rebbles just reminded me of when my baby was due (December). I decided to write my Christmas cards early and post them off in case Baby arrived early and I forgot about the cards. DH couldn't believe I was writitng the cards so early. He said, "Sure, you could just do them in the hospital ward"

My mum always said ' a man doesn't become a father until the baby is born but a mother does the second she's pregnant' I bet he'll be up reading the books in the early hours of the morning when the baby comes panicking about every little thing ???? don't worry he'll soon change once the babies there x

You make sure you're not the default parent who's supposed to know everything, by getting out of the way and leaving the father to it. Not by encouraging them to forearm themselves by reading books or thinking about it.

My DH even said "do we really need a pram, can't we just carry her until she can walk?"

Which isn't that unreasonable, you don't need a pram, carrying the child in a sling is pretty good for a lot of things depending a lot on your lifestyle.

With the first DC the books where like rule books by the time of second DC they where more like Joke books. I wish I had not of bothered.

I work with expectant parents and I often see dads who have read nothing. They treat it all as a bit of a joke while the mums have read everything they can get their hands on. When I see them after the births there is no difference in how in love they are with their babies, how engaged, how much in shock with the massive life change compared to the dads that did loads of reading and didn't make silly jokes.

I also knew fug all about babies before having one - it was only after watching 'One Born Every Minute' whilst on pre-birth maternity leave that I discovered babies come out white-ish/grey (I naively thought they came out perfectly pink). My OH was also in the pretty clueless category.

After DS was born, had all his checks and so on, midwife told DH that it was his job to put on his sons nappy, baby grow and hat. OH was pretty flustered but managed just fine. He also was far more calmer than me in the early days when DS would cry, I'd panic and get a bit flustered and OH would calmly go through his check list - nappy, wind, tired, hungry, just wants a hug.

Our DS is now an 18month toddler of cheekiness and right now, tantrums, and even now we are still learning on the job.

Do wasn't interested in books but he's a great dad.
I am the "expert" but actually that suits me because dh parents how I tell him to.

I have every sympathy with you reading books - I deal with stuff I find stressful or scary by researching, so I read loads before DS1 was born. Not because I wanted to be the perfect parent, but because I wanted to avoid killing him.

However, sadly it's not reasonable to expect everyone to do the same, as lots of people are more laid back. It is, however, reasonable to expect your DP to pick up an idea of all the basics (nappy changing, dressing, feeding, winding, safe ways to sleep etc) from somewhere - whether it's NCT classes, midwife, NHS website etc. This kind of knowledge shouldn't be down to you alone.

I found books helpful to give me ideas on various things I could try to make DS1 (a screamer) happier and get into some sort of routine over the first six months. Taking anything written in a book as gospel is a mistake, but trying out ideas and picking the bits that suit you is fine. Sounds like this is the approach you're taking.

It sounds like you're being sensible, informed and realistic, which is a hell of a lot more than many parents!

I definately think YANBU OP and it was clear that it wasn't about the books but the Mum As Default Parent thing

It irritates me beyond belief that it is still accepted that men can take a back seat, defer to mums etc and that people still think it's ok to think a man isn't a father until the baby is out etc. That's just not the way it should be these days at all.

Parenting in these days with lots of families where both parents work, split mat/pat leave etc should be equal and that includes preparing for the baby as a team IMO.

I totally agree with what others have written here - you (and your DP!) will learn on the job, and he will undoubtedly be fine!

Having said that, if you want to encourage him to do at least a little pre-baby reading, this is the best book EVER!

www.amazon.co.uk/Commando-Dad-Elite-Carer-Birth/dp/1849532613

My DH loved it. And he still refers to it now our DD is 21 months!

You may find once the bump is big/he feels movement/sees more in the scans it will click. From what you say I would imagine he may well go the other way and get a little too into reading books and getting a little anxious about it. That can be a bad thing too - no one wants the man telling them if the baby has latched on 'correctly' or if they aren't using the latest winding technique

I do understand where you are coming from with the assumed parenting. I'm a single mum so I can't really comment on that as it has been all on me from 6mo. However I would say that him asking questions is a tentative query showing interest and an attempt to bond with you. I know hormones sound like a cop out but you may be feeling unnaturally sensitive on the topic at the moment - just be sure not to push him away too much so that he retreats. Set yourself limits and try to have a routine in mind for joint household duties and parenting by all means, but while you are flooded with maternity hormones he is only experiencing a mild drop in testosterone in the early weeks.

I'm a maternity nurse and due our first baby in November. My partner is excited and does read the odd thing however if I've got worries she will just write it off and say all will be ok.

I've worked with over 100 newborns and their families. Some have read every book from the book store regarding babies and others have read nothing. They are all in the same boat on day one of babies birth.

My partner is happy for me to make decisions regarding birth, equipment and caring for baby but I don't want her to feel left out. So I ask her questions and show her resources that can help in decision making.

When baby is here I'm going to sit on my hands and zip my mouth when she's changing nappies, getting baby dressed etc. there is no right way to care for a baby as long as baby is safe. So I've been preparing myself that even if it's not done my way baby will be fine.

In the third trimester I also plan to have meeting of things we expect in the first weeks/months when we are at our most tired.

I've also put a lot of effort in at making sure my partner feels included but not over whelmed. We forget that the midwives, gps etc mostly only ask how we are feeling so our partners lose out.

Best thing is to take one day at a time.

I agree 100% with Sylvanians.

It doesn't matter that you the mother-to-be can or can't learn about babies from books, or whether you learn better on the job.

What matters is that your H may be staking out gormless twit/helpless dad territory, and I agree with Sylvanian's advice to nip this in the bud quickly and consistently. Don't let him get away with it.

Don't put your trust in a miraculous transformation into superdad or even reasonably-adept-dad once the baby arrives. You are going to have to get good at conveying to him what you need from him, because very often disappointment in a partner's lack of support, gormlessness, twittery, etc., can turn into a real wedge once baby arrives and sleep deprivation hits you. This goes for taking over around the house when you are completely knackered as well as dealing with the baby. Practice now to get him on board.

''I'm surprised that you don't seem to be taking as capable an attitude as you usually do to this - one of the things I love about you is your successful, can-do attitude to other life skills such as career, social life- but so far when it comes to this next stage, parenting, you suddenly look like the clueless office junior or the idiot that can't change a spare wheel - why is this DP? Are you nervous about the new challenge? I'd like to think you were more than capable of becoming a strong, knowledgable parent...' (Sylvanians)
I like this approach. For parent, substitute 'partner' and co-parent as necessary.

Does he know how to take care of the house without you reminding him or telling him what needs doing -- i.e. does he see what needs doing himself? Can he plan, shop for and prepare meals and wash up and put away afterwards? Do laundry start to finish? Does he need praise for everything he does around the house?

YANBU

'They treat it all as a bit of a joke while the mums have read everything they can get their hands on.'

I think this can affect a relationship very seriously and for a long time. A mother to be needs to feel her partner is as committed as she is and it is not too much to ask that a man get over himself and provide the emotional support that goes such a long way to making a woman feel secure and not as if she is going into this alone with the weight of it all on her back.

It doesn't matter that they both love the baby once the baby arrives. (Though of course there are tragic cases where a man rejects the baby, injures or even kills him or her). What matters is that they still love each other by the time the baby arrives, and the woman at this vulnerable time feels her partner understands what she needs when it comes to emotional support.

I think I would be annoyed by that too actually. Especially by comments like the backpack one.

A late YANBU from me, OP - I agree with the comments above about not wanting to become the Default Parent. I remember reading a post on MN a few years ago when the poster commented that she was resentful that if her DH wanted to go out for a couple of hours at the weekend he would just do it and assume she would look after the children, while if she wanted to do the same, she had to ask him to look after the children. I was horrified and determined not to end up like that.

It is irritating that there seems to be an acceptance that men can be a bit useless/ gormless/ get away with not doing much until the baby is older - women can't exactly get away with that, can they?

My PFB is 10 weeks old now, and although DH is just as capable as I am (neither of us had much experience with babies beforehand), I have noticed a slight tendency to ask me stuff as though I'm the expert. Sometimes I feel like saying 'Who do you think I get to ask during the day when I'm on my own?' (though there is MN, I suppose). I do spend more time with the baby since he's gone back to work, but when he takes over when he gets home I make sure to leave him to it. I ended up FF, and I will be honest and say one advantage is that I have been able to leave him with the baby for a few hours - I get a break and he gets the experience. I suspect that this is much harder to do when you're BF and may contribute to the 'mother as default parent' issue.

I agree with the previous comments about your DH needing to take the initiative instead of waiting to be asked/ told, both about running the house and looking after the baby. What's he like at the moment regarding household stuff?

Not a lot you do/read makes much difference ime but people like to kid themselves what they did helped.

i read one book that really did help, as it convinced me to try swaddling which instantly solved a problem my son was having.
But as i said up thread the rest completely useless.

Probably just repeating what others have said here OP but HONESTLY I don't believe it will make a shred of difference to how your DP is as a dad.

MY DH (who incidentally LOVES to research things, eg if we casually discuss taking a holiday he is home that night with three new books on our destination and will then spend hours on the internet comparing different hotels ad nauseam...) did not/would not read a SINGLE thing about pregnancy, babies etc when I was pg. Wasn't even that interested in feeling kicks, hearing about the details of my ante-natal appts etc. He liked seeing the baby on the scans but only in a sort of mildly interested way.

He is now the most amazing, adoring, loving, hands-on father, as I always knew he would be (though I admit to having a couple of annoyed moments like you when he wouldn't even express an interest in newborn baby clothes). Seriously he is 1000% in there, wants to spend every waking moment with DD, just adores the ground she walks on. He couldn't be more 'present' and yet to look at the situation when I was pg you'd have thought maybe he didn't really give a stuff.

I think maybe for some men it can be nerve-racking (in a very different way to the way it can be scary for a mother-to-be) and they don't even have the benefit of all those calming hormones. The baby doesn't feel 'real' to them yet, and I think it can be hard to bond with an unborn baby if you're not acutely aware of every hiccup, kick, roll, punch, and the way your body is changing.

Good luck OP but you/he will be FINE - please post again after baby is born and update us, I'm quite sure he will be a fabulous dad!

We went to NCT classes and this was basically where my DH really engaged in the parenthood thing.
I can't say I learnt a lot but I really brought it home to him.
Maybe sign up for some classes?

My dh hasn't read a book. Or Googled anything AFAIK. He has no experience whatsoever of babies at all really. I think the keenest thing he's done so far is research baby monitors. However I think that's because of a love of gadgets rather than baby safety..... he does listen when I read things out to him though. And he has firm ideas about not wanting me to give birth in a birthing centre as opposed to a regular maternity ward in hospital. He's been quite thoughtful though - he's bought me all new luggage on spinners as I'll be travelling with the baby regularly by myself. He doesn't let me lift anything at all. And he talks to my belly to make the baby move. I'm not expecting much more from him during my pregnancy Tbh. You can read all you want - but I think we'll be fine without too much studying. We're both intelligent adults. Babies aren't text book. We'll just get on with it when baby is here.

I don't think he needs to read a huge amount before the baby arrives but I agree that he absolutely needs to step up afterwards.

Otherwise, you could very easily end up being the one who takes the initiative on researching the next stage car seat, when to wean, buying new clothes, shoes, researching after school activities, sorting uniform, haircuts etc etc

XP was the same. He turned out to be pretty good/hands on etc, but he completely looked to me as to what to do. Like it was my job to teach him?

It took a while to get the point across that I only know what to do because I have taught myself. I wasn't born knowing this stuff. NEWSFLASH - women don't get special baby care guide microchips along with a vagina.

While I don't agree with going crazy with the parenting books, a basic book on what a baby needs, how to look after them can be very useful if like me you didn't really have a clue. The best book we had was one issued by the NHS (though I didn't get one with DD2 so perhaps they are no longer given out).

It's really not unreasonable to expect him to cover the basics. For him to look to you as the font of all knowledge re babies because you are the one giving birth is very unreasonable and sexist.

You are educating yourself because you are interested, and because you want to be a responsible parent and take good care of your baby. I do hope you don't find yourself as a new Mum of 2 in 4 months time.

DH didn't read a thing but soon got the hang of it. The pregnancy became more real for him when I put him in charge of procurement i.e. he loves bargain hunting and shopping and I don't. He had a job to do and felt more involved. I think he bought about 80% of the baby clothes, the pushchair etc.

How do you stop being the default parent? One thing I did from early on was to regularly go out for a hour or two and leave him with the baby. Its amazing how much better a quick trip to the supermarket on your own can make you feel especially if you stop in a cafe and eat cake. Apart from being good for my sanity, it was a way of handing over responsibility.