to wonder what benefits will get the chop from the £12 billion of cuts?

[steiner8]

Just that really. I'm wondering which benefits are going to go or be significantly cut. Anyone have any idea?

It's not only the rich who want the welfare state to be reformed. A lot of people on average pay think the benefits system has gone totally mad. It will be interesting to see what will be cut. I hope the cuts are sensible ones.

Sandpiper- your are absolutely right, rich people don't rely on benefits- until something goes wrong!! Like they are made redundant or the person in work dies or becomes unable to work, or they have to give up work to care for a disabled child!

'Er no, because, you know, rich people don't rely on benefits.'

Corporate subsidies and tax avoidance. Benefits by another name.

Sandpipernest, rich people do claim benefits, just indirectly. The companies they own or work for are subsidised, huge government contracts are paid to private enterprises (with little of the scrutiny that goes on in public services) etc. EVERYONE benefits from government spending.

Ian Duncan Smith for example lives on his FIL estate which receives high levels of grants and payments from both our gov and the EU, but thats ok isn't it. One rule for one and another for another eh?

Giddy most people on low incomes who managed without Tax credits didn't own their own homes so housing costs were not part of the equation.

When I grew up in the 50s/60s there were no tax credits my dad worked 3 jobs 18 hours a day to feed and clothe his family.

I remember having a day out in Battersea Funfair when I was about 6, it wasn't until years later I found out my dad saved up for a month to enable us to go, not only did he need the money to pay for rides and treats but he knew he would lose money as he had to take a day off work to take us.

Holidays were spent at my Nan and Grandads , Dad used to drive us down waking us up at 11pm driving to Suffolk, a quick cup of tea and then he would drive back he never had a holiday with us, of course I now know he would finish one job take us down and have to get back in time to start another job.

That's the reality we knew, yet now he is a Pensioner having given up work last year at age 84, some on here and on other boards would begrudge him the pension he paid NICS for 51 years to get, plus paying tax for 70 years, thinking it unfair that the benefits they get, the same benefits that were not around when he needed them may be cut.

Slow hand clap for everyone who voted Tory.
They don't give a fuck, that's why they voted Tory.

Oh for fuck's sake, is this still being trotted out? Are people really so narrow minded/naive that they can't think of more than one reason why someone might vote Tory?

The majority of those on benefits do not get anywhere near 23k- those affected are those with three or more children generally, and when you take in to account rent, it is hardly a lot! JSA is £72.50 a week, could all those wanting a cut in benefits live on that?? I know I certainly couldn't. Especially when you take into account poor housing with uneconomical heating systems.

Re debt/deficit

There's nothing wrong with a deficit per se. However, it has to be proportional to the expected growth rate over the economic cycle.
So, if you expect average annual growth of 2% over a cycle, then an average deficit of 2% is perfectly sustainable.
The problem is that since 2008 the UK has been running deficits of up to 12%, gradually reducing, now down to 5.7% (about 8% averaged over the current cycle). Meanwhile growth is running at about 2.5% (and about 0% when averaged over the current cycle)
The current situation is not sustainable in the long term. It's not particularly damaging the in short term as bond investors have confidence, but this can change overnight (Greece was borrowing heavily until 2008, then one day, investors realised that their confidence was misplaced, and the country has been imploding ever since).

Cuts do need to be made IMO

You may be retired but you benefited from the society you lived in to get to where you are, why deny others those benefits?

I deny nobody the benefits that I had....... free education, work, NHS, old age pension. I rented privatley for 25 years before we could get a deposit to buy a tiny house in the cheapest part of town.

So my Karma is fine thanks.

The majority of those on benefits do not get anywhere near 23k- those affected are those with three or more children generally, .... It's, hardly a lot

23k in full benefits is circa 29k per year pre tax, and that's excluding all the other add ons for full time benefits.

This empathy that everyone should be feeling is missing a large portion of the population that don't earn that and do have to make decisions on where to live etc...

I think they will chop child benefit and SMP

Leave child benefit in place for those already in receipt of it for their children. Set a time limit, maybe 1 Janaury 2017, and say that they will only pay child benefit for the first two children. Parents then have a choice in the next 18 months to decide whether they wish to have more than 2. The parents should then take into account whether they could afford it if their circumstances change. Im a firm believer in the saying "If you make them, you pay for them"

I hope this comes in. I think it will. Seems eminently fair to me.

But Just, this is not "long term" the current situation is the product of the longest recession in 100 years.

Greece's debt in comparison to our is totally different, for a start the BOE own 1/3 of our debt and the rest is mostly owned by domestic holders, not foreign banks like Greece. I can't be bothered to redraft a Krugman essay on here but comparisons with Greece are erroneous ( and also Greece's issues are partially due to the fact that you can't have a monetary union without a combination of fiscal powers, hence the interest rate was too low for the PIIGS countries as it was set for Franco-German objectives).

Deficit is fine in times of low growth or recession, if you remove government spending when there is low business optimism and consumer confidence you end up with a worse situation, see the 2010-2012 double dip recession and the actions in the 30s of the national government.

Oldsu - tax credits didn't exist then or in the early 90s. You misunderstood my point. Housing costs were less. There were more affordable homes. Yes going back to the 60s there were a lot of slum landlords and people in poverty. But the poster up thread was talking about her 40 something cousin raising her own children so logic dictates we're talking about the 90s.
My parents grew up in the 40s and 50s and weren't well off at all. My mum was born in a condemned house infested with rats. When she was about 4 they were rehoused in a council house which was sheer joy. My grandparents went on to buy their own home. The prospect of a hard working man with a stay at home wife and 2 kids buying a house was realistic.

Why is the assumption that a parent with 4 or 5 children on a low wage topped up by benefits or reliant completely on benefits that they had the children in those circumstances?

The only three families I've known with more than 2 children on benefits/low wages topped up had their children in longterm relationships/marriages one was left alone because of a sudden bereavement two had husbands who disappeared off with other women and don't pay their fair share.

Do people think planned children with a decent waged DH makes you immune from things like that?

Agree with a previous poster that something needs to be done about landlords.

Four and a half months to put in a boiler and six radiators is way beyond what is reasonable.

Although I wouldn't put anything past them, I really don't think they would dare cut child benefit. Cameron has specifically ruled out doing that on a number of occasions. He noticeably refused to make quite the same commitment when it came to tax credits so I expect they will be cut or eligibility tightened. I also think they will make changes to housing benefit. They'll probably means test more stuff. Under 25s will be stuffed.

But you voted tory BMW, by default you have done exactly that.

Cuts or growth Just? If we built housing for cheap rent it would create jobs and then renting those out at cost plus a dividend to build more would reduce the HB bill.
The cap reducing to 23,000 will save about 200 million out of the 26 billion spent on HB. The effects are mostly in big cities like London.

Jack - did he pledge to not cut child benefit or to not lower the limit at which it paid or not to make it 'fairer' by making the 50k limit per household.
The devil's in the detail.

I was on £70 a month for a year when I first applied for benefits. I was homeless and sleeping wherever anyone had a couch to spare, using a c/o address so that I could claim.

So yeah, the £23,000 figure is definitely not every claimant.

Yep, I voted Tory, but as the subject of this thread is the proposed benefit cuts and I do not get any benefits then I have not done exactly that (by which I presume you mean "Turkey voting for Xmas")......

I DONT GET ANY BENEFITS

www.ft.com/cms/s/0/8afc83ce-0878-11e5-85de-00144feabdc0.html#axzz3djZxYWWH

Article on Cameron and child benefit. I think he'd find it difficult to do a u turn on this. But of course he might.

Jack I think that's behind a pay wall so can't see it.

But you voted tory BMW, and therefore you voted for their objectives, it will bite you at some point, somewhere down the line you will need a service that will not be there, or will be worse, or you will now have to pay for. Just cause right now it doesn't effect you it's I'm alright Jack.

Therefore Turkey, turkey, turkey. Hope you like stuffing.