AIBU to want to write a very strong worded letter of complaint to Mcdonalds?

[LookingforRainbows]

So this happened yesterday at a Mcdonalds in London:

We were in the queue buying lunch, and my dsis needed to use the toilet. She has a 'hidden' disability and requires the disabled toilet for her needs, but the disabled toilet was locked, fair enough, stop everyone from using it and protects it for people who need it, like my sister. So, dsis went to ask a member of staff if it could be opened for her.
Well, just our luck that she happened to ask a complete bitch. The staff member told my dsis that she could not use it as she wasn't disabled. Ok, fair enough she didn't know. So my sister then explained to her that she does have a disability but it's a 'hidden' disability, and she will need to use the disabled toilet because of it. The girl gave my sister a horrid look (which I saw and at this point I came over) and said, 'you don't have a disability, you look perfectly fine to me to use the toilets downstairs' Again, my sis explained that her disability is hidden, so you wouldn't 'see' it or realised it, but it still required her to use the disabled toilet. The girl then said, well if you can't see it, then it can't be that bad so you can use the toilets downstairs and in the time you have spent trying to get into this toilet you could have finished the queue for the downstairs toilets (!!!!!!!!!) my sister politely said, 'what do you class as a disability here?'. The staff replied, 'you have to be in a wheelchair, or have something wrong with your legs so you can't get down the stairs'.
My sister replied, 'well I think you need to go on some disability awareness training, because some people, like me, have disabilities that are nothing to do with their legs and still need to use the disabled toilet.' The girl then asked my sister very rudely, 'what is your disability then? Because I can't see anything wrong with you' (!!!!)
My sis did not want to publically announce her disability to the whole of Macdonalds, but the total irony was that we had just finished doing the London Walk for Crohn's and Colitis and we were still wearing our tshirts!! So my sister said, if you want to know my disability, look at my tshirt, we have just come back from doing a charity walk for my disability, yet here we are being discriminated against because of it! The girl said, 'I'm not discriminating against you I just don't understand why you can't use the toilets downstairs, otherwise everyone will want this toilet unlocked for them.

I could not believe my ears at the rudeness of this young lady. My sister was absolutely humiliated (we were in public) and she was looking at us like a piece of shit.

So we told her to get the manager.
She huffed rudely 'fine!'.
We stood waiting by the disabled toilet and people were looking at us.
When the manager arrived with her, she said to the manager (before either of us could speak) these people can't be bothered to queue for the toilets downstairs- and she is saying that she is disabled.
And at this point my sister interrupted, 'excuse me I can speak for myself thank you very much!' We then explained to the manager what had happened etc. the manager did not ask any awkward questions or give us any funny looks, he simply took the key and opened the door and smiled and said no problem.

He was then extremely apologetic, and asked if we wanted anything free, but we had already bought out meals and to be honest after this incident we didn't even want to eat our food as it had left a bad taste in our mouth. I did see the manager take the member if staff aside and talk to her, but it didn't seem like she was being reprimanded.

Anyways, even this morning, thinking about it has got me livid and worked up. The irony that even when you are wearing a tshirt for Crohn's, you can still get prejudice right in front of your face!!

My sister wants me to help her write a strongly worded letter, as I often write letters of complaint for my work and it's my forte, but DH says that because the manager was apologetic and offered us a free food (which we had declined) we have no leg to stand on and we should just leave it....

AIBU to still be livid?

Mamababa - I would think Alzheimer's fits the definition of disability perfectly. Does you mil not get anything Eg DLA (if still called that?)

A disease can still be a disability, and even if it isn't debilitating for one person doesn't mean it doesn't for others. DS has asthma for most people that wouldn't really be classed as a disability, for him it certainly is (and it plays a big part in his DLA award) as for him it impacts on his life daily and restricts activity.

The staff member was ignorant and stupid. You need to complain so that McDonalds institute better training, to help avoid disablism in the future.

Your sister should never need to specify her disability. If staff didn't believe her about the colostomy bag, is she supposed to show it to them ?

The radar key would be sufficient proof anyway, but I'm worried to hear your sister had to wait in a busy McDs for someone to notice her, get the key and unlock the door: even with properly trained staff, it must be very stressful and could take too long for some conditions.
I thought the radar key meant she'd have direct access - are McD's following the rules there (sorry if that's me being ignorant)

I'd assume anyone with Crohn's or other such conditions knows what kind of food they can best tolerate.

Oops sorry, I see radar system is optional. It should be compulsory for these big franchises

But the majority of people can and do use non accessible toilets so cramming as many of those in makes sense for everyone.

I think you are thinking of them as a separate thing. I mean a complete overhaul of toilet design. I've seen some that have an array of sizes of cubicles that meet everyone's needs, rather than having the 'accessible' ones separate and locked. So those that can sneak into the tiny ones that the door can only be closed when the user has no actual legs [because they didn't think about where to put the sanitary box when they designed it] can use those and people that can't - can access those with double sized spaces with a sink included as part of the 'booth'.

And yes where they have huge amounts of people that need facilities all at the same time [theatres etc] yes they need to put more space to the toilets and not just cram them in. Everybody needs the loo at some point so having them crammed in as an afterthought is just wrong.

A long time ago I used to draw out plans for architects and it used to get my goat then.

I think there should always be a seperate accessible toilet, I have no issue with more accessible/wider cubicles in the normal toilets but there will always be need for seperate, spacious facilities.

Some people need immediate access to the sink in the same area as the toilet

Some people need space/facilities to change an older child/adult (sadly lacking in a lot of places but a whole different thread)

Some people find the main toilets too much especially if they have hand driers in them.

Big choc that's a really good point. I'd have thought radar key stuff would have come under reasonable adjustments. Certainly for big chains.
Doreen so you're agreeing that we need a mix of small, irritating cubicles and larger accessible cubicles? Not sure what changes you're suggesting

"but DH says that because the manager was apologetic and offered us a free food (which we had declined) we have no leg to stand on and we should just leave it.."

Don't have a leg to stand on in terms of what??

You are just after pointing out what happened aren't you?

The staff member dealt with it appallingly & the manager may not have done enough.

I think that you absolutely should write.

Let alone the issue of locked toilets so that people who need them are even put in the position of having to ask.

i have colitis and often need the toilet urgently, i have just been looking into purchasing a radar key and joining the crohns and colitis uk support group because yes i do get funny looks if i come out of the disabled toilet but as others have said i sometimes need the sink to help me clean up etc

McDonald's is a suitable meal for someone who has had part/all of their bowel removed due to crohns, low fiber and full of salt (we need to up our salt intake because we don't absorb as much) , which will give us less bother than high fibre health foods potentially could.

I'm lucky enough to have never experienced anyone being outright rude to me but I have had a few 'looks' when I've came out of disabled toilets, esp the ones that are shared baby changing toilets and there is a queue. Looking at me I look like any other normal fit 30 year old but I have had my entire large intestine removed and have a stoma, and I do feel judged sometimes in regards to using disabled toilet. I would definitely write and complain, your poor sister must have been mortified, I know I would if I had to change my bag and this happened trying to get into an accessible toilet. The McDonald's employee can't get away with treating people like that and has to be made aware that its not only obviously disabled people that need access to that toilet.

Doreen so you're agreeing that we need a mix of small, irritating cubicles and larger accessible cubicles?

No. I think we need to redesign the public toilet completely. That's why I said 'I mean a complete overhaul of toilet design' - I think ALL public toilets should be more accessible. eg if the standard toilet size was increased by 30%, that would make them all far more accessible for a larger number of people in the first place. If we put sinks into half/all of them, would it make them more accessible to a larger range of people. If the handwashing was separate and some had sinks in then that would make them more accessible. Just floating a few ideas...I don't have the answers but surely all the great and the good design minds could come up with a toilet design that meets more needs than the teeny tiny squeezy toilet that seems to be the norm these days..hence making the accessible ones more appropriate for so many people that don't need ALL the facilities that they have in there.

But if we make all toilets 30% bigger then that presumably means 30% fewer toilets (excuse the presumably dodgy maths but you get the principle) which means longer queues for everyone. Very small toilets are a pain for most people without disabilities but they do the job. Surely it's basic economic sense to get the most for your money which in his case equates to available space?

And having less toilets and all together will also create massive issues for those who can't wait but have to queue with everyone else.

Generally speaking the queues aren't too bad for disabled toilets (especially not those which are radar locked) but ladies toilets often have massive queues.

I would definitely complain, and ask that the specific staff member be identified and to go on disability training. I'd also ask that the disability toilet be fitted with a radar key. I'd also ask for an apology and a significiant donation to crohns charity given the obvious breach of legislation and say you aren't interested in free meals there given your distressing and unpleasant experience.

Yanbu op. Please do write the letter. I would echo pp who have said to mention that the manager did deal with it well at the time, but you want staff to be trained as the issue should have never occurred in the first place.

I must admit I had never given the disabled toilets much thought but now I have it doesn't seem right that your sister and other disabled people have to ask for access in the first place! Is that a common thing in other venues or do most have that radar key thing/ an unlocked door?

I'm shocked at a couple of responses on this thread too.

I don't know what on earth DoreenLethal proposes to do about toilets in listed buildings. You can't exactly do much about what's already there in terms of increasing accessibility to everyone.

In terms of the OP, yes, I would write emphasising that their policies and training need reviewing and improvements need to be implemented.

I thought that might be the case sorry if I offended anyone.

So why did you have to ask?

I think it was very obvious it was more than likely to be the case, yet its you who should have known better who had to ask.

sooty I assumed Doreen was suggesting changes to the majority of toilets which aren't in listed buildings , and certainly the ones in big chains and public service buildings.

Probably Stealth

I'm sure she'll be back to tell us anyway.

Not all of the accessible toilets are accessible by radar key, I've come across several in my travels, at a bus station, train station, in a pub, and in shops too. I have urgency and mobility issues, and this means that tracking down the key is both painful, and carries the risk that I will have an accident.

I don't look disabled, but I have issues with toileting (mixed incontinence and bowel issues not yet diagnosed), limited mobility - I can walk for short distances so long as I rest every so often and I can't stand for long periods either, and the embarrassing issue with fainting (vasovagal syncope) with bowel or renal pain as a trigger. I need the accessible toilet with emergency cord, and a sink next to the toilet, and privacy to deal with changing clothing and cleaning myself up.

I've never had my disability questioned by a stranger, although I get a puzzled look when I ask for access sometimes, like they are trying to work out in their head what's up with me.

I have had it questioned by people who I socialise with, because they couldn't believe that so many things were going wrong in my body, but I still look okay.

And I had a nasty experience once, before much was properly diagnosed, where a care manager and social worker questioned my honesty about my health, pregnancy trigger much of my health problems. I chucked them out my house, because of course I would lie so that I could get someone in to help me bath and dress, that's not frustrating to be unable to do independently at all, is it?

I believe you can get disability information cards, with a short paragraph saying that you need to use the accessible toilet, it's urgent and you have a hidden disability, but even so, I don't think it's right to question someone's disabled status simply because it's not something immediately apparent. I might have gotten bloody minded and told her I'm incontinent and if she didn't want to be cleaning up my bodily waste, she might want to get the bloody key.

I would complain simply to ensure that there is some sort of training as a resolution for this staff member's ignorance. And maybe to praise the manager stepping in.

It's frustrating being disabled right now, you feel quite defensive as people outright challenge whether you are or not, and you can see them inwardly judging. There seems to be this idea that we are scammers out to get what we can, and that toilets, wheelchair spaces, parking spaces, are some sort of reward, rather than a necessity. I've never been on the receiving end from strangers, but I've spoken up for other people in the past.

Oh Fan I'm sorry about your experience in pregnancy. I can't begin to imagine how it must feel to have professionals doubting you in that way.

My parents bought the Sun when I was growing up and I read it from a young age. I am ashamed of some of the warped views I got about 'benefit cheats'. I had a low opinion of women too. I do understand how the idea that disabled people are "scammers" can get into the public consciousness but it's so wrong and so unfair.

Interesting. I've only read the first and last page so maybe you've decided to complain and I've missed it. I think you should.

My mother had a similar experience in the McDonald's in Victoria Street, SW1, next to the Cathedral.

It's very smart - they have flowers in glass flutes on the tables - so she liked it. She wanted the disabled loo while I was queueing. Her disability wasn't quite so hidden - she couldn't manage the steep steps because she was 88.

What we thought would be a simple matter involved an interrogation and lots of sighing when the male staff member eventually gave in and fetched the key. To add insult to injury, the loo was dirty and smelly and had no paper.

I didn't complain to their HQ but now I know I should have done.

I've never been back. We always used the one nearby in the food court upstairs in the station because the staff are much nicer.

We were McDonald's fans but just not of that branch .

mamababa I know some posters have already responded to your point so please don't think I am 'ganging' up on you! The definition of disability in legislation is 'an impairment that has a significant and long term adverse impact on day to day life' - crohns and a stoma bag would definitely fit with this. So it does indeed qualify as a disability.

Op, I agree with those saying to go public - I honestly would. There was a similar story local to me in a concert venue, a radio station had a field day with it. Sorry you both were treated so badly.

Please do write to Head Office and make sure it's dealt with properly, hopefully it will save someone who might be in a more fragile state going through the same thing and questioning themselves.

foreverton and RedToothBrush

That has not been my experience at McDonalds, the one nearest home I have had a long running saga with because the manager says he needs to use the disabled parking bay because if he doesn't he might be robbed at 5.30am when he starts work.

Every so often I go through the drive through when they are busy and refuse to move my car until he has moved his. This has been going on for over a decade. Head office just say it is a franchise so nothing they can do.

But my favorite story was forma work colleague who was accused of misusing a BB space, he took his artificial leg off and threw it at them.