Charleston church shootings - why is everyone only talking about race?

[HootsMon]

Obviously there was a racial motivation to this outrage - the shooter has confessed as much - and god knows I have no idea what is must be like to be black in parts of the US. I'm sure they get the shitty end of the baton on many occasions.

But AIBU for being really angry that on news and social media, people seem only to be talking about the race issue - tying it in with recent police beatings, etc.- instead of the real issue, which is IMO - GUNS!

You get racist dicks in every country - America is one of the few countries that you can give one a gun for his 21st birthday.

it is amazing the sheer volume of people lining up (all over the place, media etc) to explain, humanise, and diminish what this person did- he must have been mentally ill. He is a lone wolf. It isn't about race.

Only he planned this for ages beforehand. He told one person there her was leaving them alive as a witness. He was pictured of wearing badges of apartheid era South Africa and colonial Zimbabwe. He explicitly told the people he murdered he was doing it because of race.

He did this in a state where the flag of racist state violence still flies over government buildings (and I don't care if people feel that flag means other things too - it also means terrorism), which like most states has sundown towns, and amongst people who would later say that he often made racist jokes/comments but no one thought much of it.

this is exactly what it looks like, and i would question the motives of anyone who wanted to suggest otherwise.

Northern lurker what a beautiful post.

chibi - I totally agree with all of that. I suppose I would say that the motivation was race, but gun laws helped facilitate the means.

Northernlurker, that is the best description of 'faith' that I've read in a long time (and the reason why I cannot do it).

I don't really understand the need to pick one single cause for these kind of atrocities though - it is complex.

I totally agree with areyoubeingserviced re how crimes committed by people belonging to different ethnic groups are being viewed.

I agree chibi.

That is your opinion creighton and one you are entitled to. It does not make it true however. My church and others in the area welcome people of all races, nationality and ethnicity. I realise that may not fit your own prejudices but too bad that is how it is here. I also don't think you should try and act like this is some sort of personal tragedy for you. These poor people who have somehow found the strength and courage to publically forgive this boy have every right to seek comfort in their faith and I personally think it is extremely low of people to try and deny them that or criticise them for it. At the end of the day this is their tragedy not yours.

No, penguins, that's not what I intended. There are some mental illnesses which do make people do awful things that they wouldn't do otherwise/with treatment, that's all.

Fair enough. Though I would argue that we don't know enough to decide this is about a violently delusional mental illness. It seems far more likely from what has been reported so far that this man a violent racist than someone in the grip of an uncontrolled delusion. That doesn't mean that that couldn't change. But the media institutions clinging to it seem desperate that it's not about racists. And it's not about guns.

Yes, we need to look at the discourse. This -and say the events at sandy hook were act of terrorisms as much as Boston marathon attack etc.

However, I can understand the reluctance to extend use the term terrorism - I feel it gives the terrorists too much power- it's the sort of thing these bastards would be proud of.

I'm all for humiliating these people in the media instead of giving attention to them. I don't realistically think that can be achieved tho.

In response to the "guns don't kill people, people kill people argument", it's worth comparing the reactions to mass shootings in the UK and Australia, with that in the US.

It struck me, during Obama's speech, just how disgusted he sounded. He knows that nothing will change with regards to gun laws. As noted upthread, if Sandy Hook changed nothing, what else will?

Something else that has been noted, is the calm way the Charleston shooter was apprehended, compared to the violent, heavy-handed treatment meted out to black people at the hands of the police.

Thank you Northern Lurker for your post. I really don't think now is the time for atheist point-scoring.

But the issue is race. Why is there a still a black church? Why are black colleges still in existence? Surely they should've gone at the same time as the white churches/schools etc?

The USA is a mad, bad and dangerous place. The news channels are very poor and rarely report on world issues. The unquestionable American Way is indoctrinated throughout the population and the worship of the armed forces at every event I've ever been to certainly raises more than an eyebrow.

All the coverage I have seen has discussed both guns and race. They are both crucial issues. Racism was the motivation for this murder spree, guns the means.

I'm glad race is being focussed on, personally. America seems very much in denial about its serious racism issues.

oops, not sure how that happened

i disagree that black people's reactions to this can be put down to overidentifying, or making it about them, like some facebook people do when a celeb dies

this is about them - this was an act designed to terrify and it was directed at them as much as to those poor people murdered

i find holding up the reactions of the families to forgive and turn the other cheek to berate other people who are angry is just shitty, and a kind of violence in itself. The families will grieve as they see fit, but it shouldn't be a cudgel to berate others whose reaction is anger and bitterness. they have a right to those feelings too

The boy probably wasn't mentally strong or well. But I think the racist atmosphere in some US states was certainly a contributing factor. It was there in ether for him to latch onto.

It was a combination of a sick society, a sick boy and some very stupid and irresponsible fun laws due to greed and selfishness.

The reaction of the victims's family members is truly humbling. Their dignity and generosity is more than I could muster.

The trouble with making this about race is that it ennobles this evil fucker's actions. Ascribing a political motivation gives him credit as a rational person and makes it everybody's guilt. Rather than saying he was a sick evil nihilistic bastard. I think mental illness has loads to do with that. He is a random madman.

The trouble with not acknowledging that this is about race is to stick one's head in the sand and to ignore the obvious. It was clearly racially motivated and dismissing it as the actions of a mad man does a disservice to the those who were murdered in the Emanuel AME Church.

2015 has been the year that the gaping cracks and fissures in American race relations have been exposed. The only good that can come out of this is that it's tackled head on rather than brushed under the carpet.

I'm glad most of the American news outlets are reporting it as a crime of domestic terrorism. It's the least that the victims, and America, deserves.

i just saw the post a few down from mine accusing another poster of acting like it is a personal tragedy

i reckon that if you are black and living in a society that nurtures and cherishes its violent racists, making excuses for them at every turn, then when one of them murders people at prayer explicitly because they are black and declares so, then i would say yes, it is a personal tragedy actually

pretty damn heartless and oblivious to suggest otherwise

I think the reason why some news coverage is trying to play down the racist side of this is because they are trying to prevent it blowing up really, really nastily, across the whole of the country. Racism is bubbling away under the surface a lot of the time - I remember being utterly shocked by the reports of what happened in the Superdome in New Orleans during Hurricane Katrina - have a read of www.rockalily.com/blog/my-experience-in-the-superdome-during-hurricane-katrina.html if you don't remember.

What has happened here is a terrible thing, and I hope the perpetrator feels total shame in the face of those amazing relatives. The fact that they are extending their forgiveness is a wonderful and courageous thing. I'm not sure I could do it.

Hmm I'm not sure US news organisations are particularly motivated by 'what's best for the country'. They take an angle that suits them and sells.

News journalists have a responsibility to report the news. I really don't think the reason a network like Fox is downplaying the racial motivation of this crime has anything to do with trying to keep the country safe.

Forget the race, forget the guns. It just takes one nutter with malicious intentions to cause a great tragedy. The worst thing is, you can never know...

Pretty hard to forget race and guns in this situation.

What can you never know?

If the murderer is being forgiven I guess there's no need for a trial.

buffyp it is not my prejudice. it is white America's prejudice and you know it. black americans have said that 11am on sunday morning remains the most segregated time of the week in America. this is America. religion is good for controlling the powerless, you promise them happiness in 'the next life' so that they accept ill treatment here on earth.

no, it is not my tragedy and I never said that it was. I can empathise as I am black and I know that my life would be forfeit if I went to certain parts of America, maybe yours would not be so you can remain detached from the intergenerational harm that is being done to these people. sometimes I am glad that my family is from Jamaica rather than America as Jamaicans are not surrounded by dangerous, unrepentant whites every day of their lives as black people are in America.

I guess you think that black people should continue to extend the hand of friendship to white people and have it chopped off time and again.

oh and buffyp, he is a grown MAN not a boy. do not downplay his responsibility for these murders. you sound like a white apologist for this wilful criminal. how dare you criticise me when you are trying to protect that creature.