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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Have I done enough to help this child?

111 replies

kewtogetin · 17/06/2015 13:25

Hi all, I'm going to be sketchy about the details as I don't want to out myself but I will answer any questions you have.
I'm worried about a child, well 2 children actually, in fact worried is not strong enough a word, I'm terrified for them.
They are brothers, 4&7, I know them from my sons school, I see them everyday on the school run and witness the father verbally and (this morning) physically abusing them. This morning he pinned the 4 year old to a wall by his neck, told him to fucking shut up and then stormed off. This was the final straw and i have reported him to SS.
Their have been other incidents, witnessed by myself and others, also reported, I know they are on SS 'radar' so to speak but nothing seems to change/happen.
Incidents include the eldest being kicked in the shins, told he will be thrown in front of a fucking car, picked up by the head and thrown, told 'you're going to suffer when you get home tonight boy'. The boys 'crimes' include whistling and tripping up.....
The father is the most aggressive, threatening man i have ever met, my children witness his behaviour and are terrified of him, my 2 year old calls him 'the naughty Man'
I'm scared for these children but I don't know what else I can do, the mother stands and watches and I've heard her saying 'don't you tell anyone about this or you'll get taken away' and 'if anyone asks you tell them you fell'
I'm at the end of my tether, I dread to think what's happening at home, i feel as though if i witness one more event I'm going to lose it and tell the father exactly what kind of man I know he is, that I'm watching and i know what's going on. Is this a terrible idea?
Is their anything else I can do? Anywhere I can go to help these boys? His aggression is escalating and with the long summer break coming up in genuinely worried for them.

OP posts:
maddening · 18/06/2015 21:03

Have your phone ready to record every school run from now on, have it set to upload straight to the cloud and make sure it has battery and all data turned on.

LineRunner · 18/06/2015 21:06

I have never heard of a 40 day surveillance either. I wonder if anyone else has?

DartmoorDoughnut · 18/06/2015 21:18

OP those boys need someone in their corner, you did totally the right thing Flowers If you're worried call the police, don't tell yourself you're being paranoid, trust your gut and keep you and your family safe.

APlaceOnTheCouch · 18/06/2015 21:35

I've never heard of 40 day surveillance or of SS providing an update back to the person who reported. Perhaps OP isn't in the UK?

WhataMistakeaToMakea · 18/06/2015 21:37

Are you in England OP? I'm a Social Worker and I have never heard of 40 day surveillance but perhaps it's an assessment they are doing and those can take up to 45 days.

Just to say it's not that social services 'do nothing' but we have to have evidence to act. Lots of people make malicious reports so if there is nothing to back it up (eg worries from school or professionals or a police report or injuries seen on the child etc) quite often all we can do is log it or advise parents of the referral and warn them that any more reports could lead to action. That's why the more logs the better because then that builds up enough history of concerns to do something.

Well done OP. These children are lucky to have someone like you around.

Poppyred85 · 18/06/2015 21:38

Well done OP for what you have done so far. I know it's frustrating when nothing seems to be happening but SS have to collect evidence of what is happening in order to have legal justification for removing children as awful as that is for the child(ren) in the situation. You can help in the gathering evidence by what you have done- keep dates times and details of all you witness and report each incident to SS and the school. As others have said inform Police through 999 if you witness incidents as before and "lower level" incidents through 101. From the sounds of things I imagine the Police will already be familiar with this man. Please don't try to confront him directly about it unless you fear for the child's safety in which case keep your distance but shout loudly to draw attention of others to what is going on. Large glass of something alcoholic +/- chocolate for you tonight.

Hestheone · 18/06/2015 21:46

I reported a neighbour who was already on the radar for stuff nowhere near this bad and the children were removed,so how they continue to leave these poor boys in this situation beggars belief,poor things

Wideopenspace · 18/06/2015 21:52

You absolutely have done the right thing OP, however, don't hold your breath for the children to be removed.

If it does eventually go that way it will be a long and slow process. Initially, once evidence is gathered, the children may be put on a child protection plan,which is the beginning of close monitoring and support for the children (and parents) - the best outcome is that the parents change their behaviour, with support. What that support looks like varies massively according to postcode - and when you throw in mental health, this is another complicating factor in terms of support...

Original poster
kewtogetin · 18/06/2015 21:53

I'm in the uk. SS have not reported back to me, I've heard nothing from them since I reported the father.
The mother told my acquaintance about the 40 day surveillance and what she had told SS (lies) so she told me, like i say, I don't know the first thing about SS so I don't know if the 40 day surveillance is a 'thing' or if my acquaintance has got the name wrong.
All I do know is they have got away with it again. How many more times? What else? I feel like screaming.

OP posts:
Wotsitsareafterme · 18/06/2015 21:57

40 days is news to me and I am a SW. Though not in front line cp.

RandomMess · 18/06/2015 21:59

I would speak to the police and say specifically that despite them having given a different story to SS you know without doubt what you saw Sad

Have SS got anything in writing from you? I would be tempted to put it all in writing so that you have evidence, much harder for them to ignore/explain away etc.?

Wideopenspace · 18/06/2015 22:00

I think the '40 days' thing refers to the amount of time SS have to carry out an initial assessment following a referral.

Aeroflotgirl · 18/06/2015 22:03

Keep reporting op, tell school. You are doing so well.

wherethewildthingis · 18/06/2015 22:06

Hello op - children's social worker here. Please call 999 if you see this again. That is the right way to get the right outcome for these children

Fairy13 · 18/06/2015 22:08

I don't think they have got away with it, OP. It sounds like they are doing an assessment and hopefully that will lead to some changes.

Document every incident with time and date and document it at the time. Report every single time, and report to the school too. If they report it will add weight to the concern.
The fact that the eldest child is smearing in the toilets is a massive red flag and the school should be flagging that up with SS.

WhataMistakeaToMakea · 18/06/2015 22:09

It's not that they have gotten away with it OP it sounds as though social care are doing an assessment. Without evidence other than one person said this incident happened SW can't just remove a child.

If Police had been called and attended and had seen or had evidence of the assault then they could have removed the child under Police Protection. If there was evidence of injury or lots of witnesses etc then the Sw could have tried for an emergency protection order in court.

Hopefully social care will assess and find enough worries to keep the case open to carry on working with the family rather than closing the case this time. Continue to report anything you see or hear as this can add to their evidence.

CamelHump · 18/06/2015 22:12

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Original poster
kewtogetin · 18/06/2015 22:24

Whatamistakeatomakea, this isn't an isolated incident, it's not just a case of what I've seen/reported. The eldest boy turned up one day with a giant lump on his head, he told the teacher his dad had kicked him in the head. The police were called but come 3pm he was released back into their care.
The poo smearing, the head injury, the being picked up by the head and thrown against kitchen cupboards, being kicked by the father etc etc incident after incident reported by several other parents.

OP posts:
trickyex · 18/06/2015 22:32

Call the 101 police number tonight and if you see any other incidents on the school run just call 999 as you would if you saw such an attack on any adult.
Harrowing thread, hang in there OP and please know you did the right thing by reporting.

timtam23 · 18/06/2015 23:01

OP I would also say please call 101 & report the latest assault, I know SS are already involved and the police have previous contact with this family but please do let the police know, and also that the mother is not being truthful about what happened. Every bit of information you can give is potentially helping these 2 little children.

I am not a social worker but do work in a field where child safeguarding issues are fairly regular occurrences, and it does often seem that the wheels of bureaucracy turn extremely slowly. Please please keep reporting anything you see to police/school/SS including ringing 999 if necessary. And well done for standing up for those poor children.

Original poster
kewtogetin · 19/06/2015 08:01

I'm doing the school run shortly, I can't film as I'll be pushing the pram but i can put voice record on my phone and prop it on the hood of the pram just in case.

OP posts:
Sawyer1986 · 19/06/2015 08:45

Have your phone at the ready and record him/take pictures. Do you have a trusted mum friend who you can tell to do the same?
Id call the police if he laid a hand on one of those boys.

27inmyhead · 19/06/2015 08:48

Don't follow them, don't film them, don't say anything. Ring the police.

27inmyhead · 19/06/2015 08:49

Can I ask how you know about things like poo smearing and being thrown against kitchen cupboards?

Aussiemum78 · 19/06/2015 08:56

I'd record it on my phone and call police. Demand that charges are pressed.

That's horrific.