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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Re wanting to buy my daughter a rum & raisin ice cream

142 replies

DoughDoe · 11/06/2015 23:32

So we went out today to buy ice cream from Thorntons. DD, who is 7, said she wanted rum & raisin ice cream.

Woman (Muslim though I'm not sure if that was a factor in her thinking) behind the till said 'I can't serve her that'.

Bought one ice cream (there were three of us) handed it to DH and told DD & DH to go away so I could buy DD's ice cream without having the woman tell us she couldn't give it to her. DD got upset and refused, because she didn't know what was going on and thought she wasn't going to get any ice cream. So gave up trying to buy more ice creams, and just walked off, and we ended up with just one ice cream between the three of us.

Won't be going back there, either, if this woman is serving.

AIBU to think I should be able to buy my child an ice cream?

OP posts:
merrymouse · 12/06/2015 08:44

Fair enough Andrew, but the op will never know whether the problem was alcohol in general, alcohol for children or that a fly had been crawling across the rum and raisin seconds earlier.

merrymouse · 12/06/2015 08:51

The only time I have been held up because of an alcohol purchase has been when the shop assistant has been under age.

Myricales · 12/06/2015 08:59

The claimed licensing issue around parents buying alcohol for their children is something of a minefield as well. It's perfectly legal for parents or other responsible adults to serve alcohol to children aged over five; various people may wish at this point to hoik up various sorts of judgemental undergarments, but allowing a seven year old to drink wine, beer or indeed rum in the house under supervision is not of itself illegal; obviously it may, depending on quantities and outcomes, be deemed neglectful or abusive. It is not, however, at the point of consumption, illegal.

And even if the shop might think you're about to serve booze at home to a child under five, they are under no legal obligation to worry about it. Attempting to police what people do with legal purchases, well, that way madness lies.

However, it is illegal for an adult to purchase alcohol on behalf of a minor, with the minor then being in control of the booze afterwards (ie, "will you buy us a bottle mister, here's a fiver"); the various crimes are committed by both the licence-holder and the adult. More seriously for the shop, because it's licensing law their licence could be removed if they do it too often, and the legal threshold for that is lower than the threshold for a conviction.

So supermarkets are nervous about selling booze to adults in the company of children not because they think you're going to serve it to them (not their problem as it isn't a problem) but because they think you're going to give it to them to run off with and drink in the park (licensing problem). In a sense, the problem for the shop is greater for teenagers than, say, seven year olds, because the argument that the adult is just fronting for the child is easier to make. Amusingly, the only time I've ever been asked vaguely if the booze was for me or my teenage child was when I was buying a bottle of Campari and a bottle of vermouth. I mean, seriously, if teenagers are hanging around parks necking Negronis, the Hoxton hipster trend really is completely out of hand.

Some confectionary does fall under licensing laws. For example, I noticed in a supermarket a couple of days ago that there were "Think 25" stickers next to liqueur chocolates. Incidentally, am I alone in thinking liqueur chocolates are a silly "it's not really drinking you know" charade for elderly relatives who get tipsy on sherry trifle, but are in all other respects pointless and vile (the chocolates, not the relatives, dangling modifier police please note).

I don't know if Thorntons have reduced the alcohol content in their Rum and Raisin. Rum flavouring, which isn't alcoholic to a level sufficient to interest the authorities, is widely available, but Thorntons might have made a commercial decision to not use it (perhaps so the aforementioned elderly relatives can think it's a bit edgy: after all, Thornton's main customer base is your elderly relatives anyway). The OP's suspicion the issue might be religious is not unfounded: there have been several cases where this sort of thing has happened, most recently:

www.kilburntimes.co.uk/news/muslim_tesco_worker_refuses_to_sell_ham_and_wine_during_ramadan_1_3686394

But the tl;dr is you were being unreasonable, mostly because Thornton's ice cream is rank.

dominogocatgo · 12/06/2015 09:08

So Thorntons believe the alcohol content to be unsuitable for a child, but the sugar and fat content is presumably fine.

SirChenjin · 12/06/2015 09:16

Correct response from the shop assistant should have been "I'm sorry, I can't serve your daughter that because......"

Doesn't matter what the OP should have thought/done/said/whatever - it was crap customer service.

Interesting enough - I've never been asked to prove the teens ages when I've bought a rum and raisin ice cream from Thorntons for them, nor have I noticed any signs up about not selling that flavour to people under the age of 18. This assistant was obviously extremely zealous, as well as lacking the basic communication skills required from someone in her position.

Andrewofgg · 12/06/2015 09:21

Thorntons don't need a liquor licence to sell rum-and-raisin ice-cream - there is no licensing issue.

ChunkyPickle · 12/06/2015 09:34

Campari and a bottle of vermouth I am sitting here giggling to myself at the thought of a teenager rolling his eyes at his mum and her bottle of lager and sitting in the park drinking Campari cocktails instead...

I'm surprised there's not a sign up if they can't sell it to people because of genuine alcohol content (mind you our school drinks machine used to sell Silverspring Shandy which has a miniscule alcohol content, so perhaps I've been affected).

Mind you, an assistant in Thorntons once refused to sell my sister a diabetic chocolate egg for me (not diabetic, just low carbing) because apparently it was dangerous for non-diabetics to eat.

Mochamum · 12/06/2015 09:47

My thoughts exactly CamelHump.

budgiegirl · 12/06/2015 09:52

Wow, what a lot of fuss about nothing!

I had the same happen to me at a Thorntons. My DD8 wanted rum and raisin ice cream. The server said 'Sorry, I can't serve that to her'
I asked " Is that because of the alcohol content?" (note, OP, not an argument, just a simple question'
Server - "Yes, it's store policy'
Me, to DD - " Sorry, DD, you can't have rum and raisin, this one is for grown ups only. Choose another flavour'

No fuss, no drama, and if DD had a tantrum, we'd have just left. Sometimes kids just can't have what they want, and for perfectly good reasons. If you had just asked the server, you would have known what the policy was, and why the server can't serve your daughter.

IKnowIAmButWhatAreYou · 12/06/2015 10:43

You're my hero budgiegirl

SirChenjin · 12/06/2015 12:02

No fuss budgie - but much more helpful if the store assistant had engaged their brain before speaking and offered information unprompted as to why she couldn't serve her rum and raisin ice cream. Given that most r&r uses flavouring I'm surprised you even thought to ask about alcohol content - it wouldn't have occurred to me, especially given that there are no signs up actually warning of the teeny tiny 0.7% alcohol content.

balletnotlacrosse · 12/06/2015 12:42

I agree with budgiegirl. Part of the reason you couldn't get another ice cream was because your dd dug her heels in and threw a strop. She's 7 not 3 and quite frankly I would have told her if she couldn't behave, then it's her own fault you couldn't get her an ice cream.

bamboostalks · 12/06/2015 13:06

Hate rum and raisin flavour.

Nanny0gg · 12/06/2015 13:12

Most people, in most shops if you had been refused service, would have asked for an explanation I would have thought.

I can't understand why you didn't.

SirChenjin · 12/06/2015 13:15

Most people working in a shop would offer a reason for refusing a sale without their customers having to ask.

limitedperiodonly · 12/06/2015 13:16

So do I bamboostalks

DustyCropHopper · 12/06/2015 13:19

It would not have occurred to me that there was any actual rum in the ice cream, I thought it was just a flavouring. I would not even think of asking the alcohol content of it and if this is the reason then thorntons should have a sign up stating so. My almost 7 year old would have be very hard to deal with if he set his mind on that flavour (he has food obsessions, we suspect he is asd but now we have a diagnosis of dyspraxia no one is interested), so warning him he could not have it before we got to that point would be better.

merrymouse · 12/06/2015 13:34

I agree that it would have been better customer service for the shop assistant to volunteer why rum and raisin couldn't be served - but it just seems normal human interaction for the customer to then ask why.

Myricales · 12/06/2015 13:59

Thorntons don't need a liquor licence to sell rum-and-raisin ice-cream - there is no licensing issue.

Untrue (assuming rum and raisin icecream counts as confectionary). The current situation is that you don't need a personal or premises license to sell confectionary which contains alcohol, but it is nonetheless age-restricted.

See here:

www.alcohollicence.org/liqueur-chocolates-are-they-an-age-restricted-product/

DoughDoe · 12/06/2015 14:51

So just to update this, the woman was 100% wrong.

It was never illegal to supply liqueur chocolates/ice cream to an adult on behalf of a child, because the law does not class these as 'alcohol' (which a child cannot buy for a child), they are a separate category 'liqueur confectionery'.

It WAS illegal to supply liqueur chocolates/ice cream TO a child (not to me), however as of 26th May 2015 this offence was abolished, under The Deregulation Act 2015, as brought into force by the The Deregulation Act 2015 (Commencement No. 1 and Transitional and Saving Provisions) Order 2015.

And by the way, yes Thorntons chocolates are shit, but I quite like the ice cream.

OP posts:
DoughDoe · 12/06/2015 14:52

sorry 'an adult cannot buy for a child'

OP posts:
CloserToFiftyThanTwenty · 12/06/2015 14:58

I don't understand why OP didn't just buy three ice creams and swap them around outside the shop...

I wonder if you can still buy cider ice lollies for kids

SirChenjin · 12/06/2015 15:09

In which case Dough, you must go back to the shop and when she pulls the "computer says no" face, you can say "acksherly, Mrs Lady, that's just where you're wrong"

please do it please do it please do it

GandTwithice · 12/06/2015 15:27

Sorry that you have had so much abuse for really a very simple question. She should have served you, you did not say anything racist, ignore the nasty keyboard warriors.

plecofjustice · 12/06/2015 15:27

Amusingly, the only time I've ever been asked vaguely if the booze was for me or my teenage child was when I was buying a bottle of Campari and a bottle of vermouth. I mean, seriously, if teenagers are hanging around parks necking Negronis, the Hoxton hipster trend really is completely out of hand.

To be fair, when I was underage, that was exactly the booze I bought, cos it was the only thing I could buy without being ID'd. I blame those formative experiences on my preference now for posh cocktails!

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