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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Re wanting to buy my daughter a rum & raisin ice cream

142 replies

DoughDoe · 11/06/2015 23:32

So we went out today to buy ice cream from Thorntons. DD, who is 7, said she wanted rum & raisin ice cream.

Woman (Muslim though I'm not sure if that was a factor in her thinking) behind the till said 'I can't serve her that'.

Bought one ice cream (there were three of us) handed it to DH and told DD & DH to go away so I could buy DD's ice cream without having the woman tell us she couldn't give it to her. DD got upset and refused, because she didn't know what was going on and thought she wasn't going to get any ice cream. So gave up trying to buy more ice creams, and just walked off, and we ended up with just one ice cream between the three of us.

Won't be going back there, either, if this woman is serving.

AIBU to think I should be able to buy my child an ice cream?

OP posts:
Original poster
DoughDoe · 11/06/2015 23:46

"OP, did you not think to google or contanct Thorntons before assuming it was because the woman was muslim?"

I have bought rum & raisin ice cream many many times from this shop for my daughter. She always tells the server the flavour she wants and there has never been an issue.

I have not seen this woman before. I am not assuming anything, I just said it might be a factor.

OP posts:
Original poster
DoughDoe · 11/06/2015 23:46

"Well have you asked Thorntons whether they have done it by now?"

Yes I have emailed them.

OP posts:
hazeyjane · 11/06/2015 23:47

So what did the woman say, when you asked why she couldn't have it when she had had it before?

Original poster
DoughDoe · 11/06/2015 23:48

"So what did the woman say, when you asked why she couldn't have it when she had had it before?"

I didn't ask her, I'm not going to get into an argument with someone who doesn't want to sell me something, it's ridiculous.

OP posts:
msgrinch · 11/06/2015 23:50

Why didn't you ask? no argument... ask?

WorraLiberty · 11/06/2015 23:50

I didn't ask her, I'm not going to get into an argument with someone who doesn't want to sell me something, it's ridiculous.

"Oh, I've bought rum and raisin ice cream for my DD many times before. Can you tell me why you can't serve her please?"

How is that getting into an argument? It's jut basic conversation Confused

ApeMan · 11/06/2015 23:50

Wait, refusing to serve rum and raisin ice cream in case a child has some?

I think the problem is more that the shop assistant is a moron than anything else.

hazeyjane · 11/06/2015 23:52

Nice.

msgrinch · 11/06/2015 23:53

moron?! nice. wow.

WorraLiberty · 11/06/2015 23:53

ApeMan have you actually been following the thread?

The shop assistant, along with every single other Thorntons shop assistant, is not allowed to sell rum and raisin ice cream to children.

PopTarts · 11/06/2015 23:57

I think you dealt with it really poorly yourself.
you upset your dd by buying one ice cream, and then sent your dh and dd off with this one cream, with dh holding it. Your poor dd obviously thought it was dh's and quite rightly for upset. You then left buying any more ice creams because she got upset?

Yet you blame the Muslim woman.

What a completely nobbish way of behaving and thinking.

Original poster
DoughDoe · 11/06/2015 23:57

BTW just googled the various garments, cos I was a bit confused:

abaya - full Islamic woman's robe covering the head
jilbab - similar to abaya, except maybe not covering the head (separate headscarf), except in Indonesia (which is where I heard it) it specifically means a headscarf
hijab - actually just means covering, so it could be a full robe as well, but it usually refers to a headscarf
khimar - another word for headscarf
niqab - covers the face except for eyes
burka - covers the whole face completely

OP posts:
msgrinch · 11/06/2015 23:59

Oh so your point was about the ladies religion!

Original poster
DoughDoe · 12/06/2015 00:00

"The shop assistant, along with every single other Thorntons shop assistant, is not allowed to sell rum and raisin ice cream to children."

That's rather a bold statement - that was the case in 2007, we don't know if it's the case today, given that in 2007 they said they were going to change it.

OP posts:
fanjoforthemammaries7850 · 12/06/2015 00:00

Am embarrassed for you at your eagerness to jump to racist assumptions and believe in Daily Mail type stereotypes.

PopTarts · 12/06/2015 00:01

And how does your last post relate to the ice cream problem exactly ?

Original poster
DoughDoe · 12/06/2015 00:04

"I think you dealt with it really poorly yourself.
you upset your dd by buying one ice cream, and then sent your dh and dd off with this one cream, with dh holding it. Your poor dd obviously thought it was dh's and quite rightly for upset. You then left buying any more ice creams because she got upset?"

If DD had been there she would have told the woman that she wanted Rum & Raisin ice cream. And the woman had made it clear that she wasn't going to serve it to her.

So my plan was to send her away with DH and buy her ice cream for her, because I knew what she wanted, but she got upset and started jumping up and down because she didn't understand what was going on.

It seemed to me like a better idea to do that than try an have an argument about the ice cream with this woman. What I didn't plan on was DD having an instant tantrum, in the split second while DH was trying to walk away with her and explain things.

OP posts:
WorraLiberty · 12/06/2015 00:05

That's rather a bold statement - that was the case in 2007, we don't know if it's the case today, given that in 2007 they said they were going to change it.

That's because 'we' didn't ask the shop assistant a simple question did 'we'?

Instead, 'we' decided to start a thread on Mumsnet heavily implying it was because the woman is Muslim.

Why not just wait for Thorntons to reply to your email since your voice obviously failed you in the shop?

Perfectlypurple · 12/06/2015 00:06

I don't see how her perceived religion is relevant in not serving a child an ice cream. If religion meant she would not be able to serve 'alcohol' that would be to anyone, no matter what age and oils be best employed somewhere that didn't involve alcohol. I really fail to see your thinking with this.

WorraLiberty · 12/06/2015 00:08

And if two parents can't get a 7yr old to do as she's told and simply leave the shop, that's not the shop assistant's fault either.

No matter how upset she was, your DH could have taken her outside and explained that you would emerge in 2 minutes with her chosen ice cream.

Original poster
DoughDoe · 12/06/2015 00:10

"And how does your last post relate to the ice cream problem exactly ?"

What the one about head coverings?

It doesn't, but I was:

(a) firstly jumped on for the apparently unfathomable idea that you might be able to identify that a woman is a Muslim
and
(b) having referred to the woman's scarf as a jilbab, criticised again

so I thought I would check what the correct terminology was.

If someone chooses to advertise their religion with their clothing choices then that will affect people's perceptions of their possible motivations.

OP posts:
msgrinch · 12/06/2015 00:14

What a pleasant last paragraph op. All this hate over an employee doing her job. Maybe your child needs to learn that they can't alway have what they want.

Aermingers · 12/06/2015 00:15

The assistant shouldn't have needed to be prompted to explain why she couldn't serve it. The correct customer service when refusing service is to politely explain why. Just to flatly state you won't serve it without explanation is poor service. The OP also seems to feel that the woman's manner was judgemental. And I suspect it was, I can see how just stating it like that would have made the OP feel she was expected to know this and was a bad parent for trying to give her child that ice cream when it was a genuine mistake. It's also poor on the part of Thornton's as a company; they've not trained their staff consistently on this so they're doing different things which has led to a customer being embarrassed.

I doubt it's anything to do with her religion (except perhaps because it means she has a greater awareness of which products contain alcohol). But it was poor service.

WorraLiberty · 12/06/2015 00:17

I think you need to take responsibility for a few things OP.

  1. You failed to ask a simple, basic question like "Oh, can you tell me why you can't serve her please?"
  1. You failed to wait for the reply from Thorntons before assuming (and let's cut the shit because you are assuming) that this had something to do with the woman's religion.
  1. Neither you or your DH could get your child to follow a simple instruction like 'go outside with Daddy'.

If I were you, I would ask for this thread to be deleted because I'd be too embarrassed to let it remain on a public forum, even though you are actually anonymous.

Lesson hopefully learned about jumping the gun.

Original poster
DoughDoe · 12/06/2015 00:18

"I don't see how her perceived religion is relevant in not serving a child an ice cream. If religion meant she would not be able to serve 'alcohol' that would be to anyone, no matter what age and oils be best employed somewhere that didn't involve alcohol. "

I just mentioned it as a potentially relevant descriptor of the shop assistant, and people decided to make the thread about that.

If my daughter had wanted to buy a titilating novel and the woman refusing had had big cross around her neck , then I would have mentioned that to, no it's not necessarily the reason, but it's a bit daft to ignore it.

OP posts:
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